... and now it happened. - Page 7 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

LaRondo · #91 12-29-2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Ah, now I am self-limited because I don't agree with you. Golly, the scales fall from my eyes! I was blind and now I see!

Sorry, I made you feel that way. Just keep in mind that neither did I encourage any kind of self limiting behavior.

LaRondo · #92 12-29-2008, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Whomever thinks that there should be "balance" and "fairness" in a death match is either crazy or has never been in a death match situation.

If that is so, why continue to worry about the long expired history of Nazis?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

If I were an Israeli, I'd love a million-to-one. Bet the Gazanians (Gazites? Gazooks?) are "dying" to better their kill ratio, too.

How about 'Gazis'?

LUVMBDiesels · #93 12-29-2008, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankdriver

In the original article posted, this Israeli attack was in response to attacks that killed 1 Israeli and wounded 6. You're right, it seems Hamas is not very good at rocket attacks. Israel on the other hand is extremely good. My point in bringing it up is that retaliatory justification is weak when you kill at a 200:1 ratio.

It's a slippery slope trying to define who was there first, and ultimately it is a pointless endeavor. Before the Ottomans were the Crusaders, who were preceded by Arabs who were preceded by Babylonians who were preceded by Romans, Greeks, Persians, etc..

Palestine is the name of the region, not the name of a country. It was under the control of the Ottoman Turks until WWI. Lawrence of Arabia incited the Arab majority living there to revolt. The Arabs were promised their own lands. Palestine was the territory the allies (european) were to control.
At this point, having already promised the Arabs their own lands, Britain also promised Jews a homeland.
That's when and where it gets f**ked up. There was never concrete borders decided on what country goes where. Nobody really cared because the Brits and French maintained sovereignty over everything. But it's here, not 1948, that the problems began.

One thing is for sure. The Arabs were the majority population under the Ottomans and under the Brits. Between 1919 and 1948, Jewish immigrants flooded the territory that had been not quite defined as the future Jewish country. In fact, Britain imposed immigration rules limiting Jewish immigration to the territory. So the Arabs could not invade the area because they were the ones living there.

Eventually, the Arabs grew tired of the Jewish immigration and British rule and revolted. They lost. When the Brits said they were leaving, the UN came up with a plan that created an Arab area of Palestine and a separaet Jewish state. The Arabs did not agree to the partition. The Brits left and the 48 war began. After winning it, Israel kept half of what was supposed to be (under the UN plan) the Arab Palestine.

The issue was arab control of lands that they had been living in. The issue was never a question of how much territory should be given to the creation of Israel, such that the rest be called Palestine. If part of Texas is lost, how much of Oklahoma should Olkahomans cede to a new Texas?

Israel has tried to give them bits and pieces spread around in little pockets, surrounded by Israel - and walled off. More like a prison camp than homeland.

We're still missing the forest for the trees though. If Israel had kept to what it stated in its declaration creating the state:
We appeal ... to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.
then there would be no desire to suicide bomb. An equal society is a relatively happy one. It's hard to get happy, or at least contented, people to kill themselves with vest bombs.

Good post, Let me take it point for point again.
Point 1 200:1 kill ratio. If HAMAS did not shoot 1888 rockets into Israel the Israelis would not have fired back. Remember that the IDF sent messages to the Gaza civilians to get away from where the rockets were being launched. Did the Gazans not believe the messages? Were they being held there by HAMAS as HUMAN SHIELDS? We will probably never know.

Point 2: about the Persians and Crusaders -- I tried to keep itin the 20th Century, but you are right this pice of land has been in contention since King Solomon.

Point 3: look at the Ottoman maps -- no where did they have a place called Palestine.

Point 4: I agree with the whole Lawrence of Arabia thing. The Brits used the local Arabs to harass the Ottomans (German Allies) and did promise them a free country as their reward -- However, being Brits, they did not mean it. LoA drank himself to death with guilt over this...

Point 5: I agree that the Brits F'ed things up in the area. The French too as they had Syria and Iraq under their thumb. However, the Jews had been settling there since the birth of Zionism in the late 19th century.

Point 6: Jewish immigration into the area. Yes the Arabs were probably in the majority in 1919 (I am not sure as the area was mostly dessert and unsettled exceptin Haifa, Jerusalem, Acre, etc). The Brits basically under pressure from Nazi Germany and being anti-semmetic hemselves took it upon themselves to limit immigration. Look up the case of the Jewish refugee ship the SS Sturma that was turned away by them.
The Arabs that invaded in 1948 were Jordanians, Egyptians, Iraqis, Syrians and Lebonese. The local Arabs did not really do much fighting, except they did massacre a jewish village near Jerusalem.

Point 7 The Arab revolt from 1936-39 was as you said. It was the beginning of a Palestininan identity. What happened was that the Jews and Arabs (who had been living together pretty peacably) became separated as an example the building of the Jewish port in Tel-Aviv and the Jewish abandonment of the Arab port of Jaffa. In 1948 as I said before, the locals did not really do much fighting It was mostly the other Arab states (Egypt, Syria, Jordan,and Iraq) that did hte majority of fighting. Once the 1948 war was over, the parts of Palestininan land that were not controlled by Israel were occupied by either Egypt (Gaza) or Jordan (West Bank) As was said before neither of those countries gave their gains back to the Palestinians.

Point 8: Whose land was it? As I said before most of the area was undeveloped. It had been a backwater under the Ottomans and was mostly either dessert or small villages owned by landlords in Damascus.

Point 9: Israel giving them pieces of land -- that is better than no land at all. If the terrorists were not basing themselvesout of these pockets, there would be no need for a wall around them. These walls are there for the protection of Israel not to act as Berlin walls. (although the result is the same)

Point 10: The appeal by Israel. I absolutely agree that the solution would be a state where religion did not matter. Where both people could live together in harmony. If you look at the Arabs who live in Israel as Israeli citizens you can see this in action. What they need to handle are the small number of extremists on both sides. In other words the UN should never have agreed topartition the territory, but should have forced a US type of federal republic down both their throats. However, since this did not happen, the worls has been stuck with this for the past 60 years. The issue is that unless the terror attacks stop, the israelis would be suicidal to open the walls and try to integrate the Palestinians. Of course with the money that HAMAS spends on weapons they could build up a decent infrastructure in GAZA and help their subjects instead of using them as propaganda...

KEEP THE POSTS COMING!

Botnst · #94 12-29-2008, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

If that is so, why continue to worry about the long expired history of Nazis?

How about 'Gazis'?

That's why we call, Nazis the "former masters" of Europe. We won the death match by being much better at it than they were. That we tended to focus our attentions primarily on military targets was a major difference between us and the Axis. "Might made Right" and "Right made Might." A happy convergence for the winners and various dependent groups.

cudaspaz · #95 12-29-2008, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Ah, but you see, there is another option. Maybe the civilians don't want to get involved in actual fighting but are tacitly supporting the people firing rockets, mortars, etc, etc.

Yeah, that's kinda how I see it as well....jumping on the strongest bandwagon just because everyone else is too, plus add violent retribution to those who don't comply, and bingo, the decision is not hard and you have yourself some new recruits under duress.

Well folks ....welcome to the world of Jihad.

Only question is, "What's in YOUR wallett?"

I ask myself this question and I think well, you are either for radical Islam or you are against it, and the only way to stop is it to erradicate every last one of those suicidal maniacs.
Also remember they have set up shop in many countries and are very well established in Europe and have been flooding the borders and brainwashing kids at alarming rates, even here in the states so it's just a matter of time before Achmed starts strapping on the vest leading to his virgin land.

More questions:
1. Where do the "virgin's" come from?
2. What do the (female) suicide bombers get? male virgins?A new kitchen-aid mixer?
3. Where does it say that sex is doable in heaven?
4. If Allah, their God, not the same as mine, is supreme ruler, then why would those pukes even be rewarded anything other than bringing glory to their creator?
5. If they are such a peaceful religion, oh never mind, that's a BS excuse.

Those freaking idiots, it's all about their penis' if you think about it.
They are doing it all over Women and the total control of the world's women.

Egomaniacal perverts!

Another final question:

Where are all the "peace loving" Muslims?

Why do we NOT see high ranking officials of the Muslim faith condemning these acts on a daily basis?
Why is the media not doing interview after interview of Muslims that are tired of their religion being hijacked by extreme radicals?
Why are they not even questioning their own teachings and exposing these twisted bastards that are brainwashing their children to become bloody murderers?
Why would someone want to even be associated with that religion at all?
If it is such a great religion then where are all the millions of Peace loving Muslims taking a stand against this violence?

Okay, I am a Christian, yes I'm not perfect, don't claim to be, but if people started killing innocent people, say Mexican's for instance, not that i have anything against them, I am just making a point as to how rediculous this is.
Okay, say Christians start killing Mexicans just because Mexican's dress their Women not pleasing to a certain radical faction of Christianity's liking.
Say they also don't like their spicy food as it is an abonination to these radicals to eat spicy food, then they say they share the same God but have different names for them and different rules, and some of the rules say to kill Mexicans and people like them so they start brainwashing all their kids in many country's to start killing Mexicans for all the above mentioned reasons.

Speaking for myself, I as Christian would not stand for this and would fight to the death against this crap and take as many of those suckers with me as possible, but on the other hand I don't think I could support a religion that has writings that teach this kind of stuff in the first place.

So in my opinion, the religion is a cancer that needs a cure because it is spreading and ain't gonna stop till they get what they want.
Sharia law globally.

War is exactly what they want and no appeasement will make their agenda go away so it's either kill or be killed, end of story.

WWIII, sponsored by Satan himself.

Hatterasguy · #96 12-29-2008, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howitzer

I had the wrong impression about the Israelis, I used to think that they were highly trained but only 200 kills with 110 rockets is nonsense.

Ahh hell I do admit thats pretty good but I think they can do better.

Thats kind of what I was thinking. I was expecting more, bombs are not cheap they need to make them count more!

Although if they are big boy's 100 tons of bombs is only 50. Thats not such a bad kill ratio, not good, but not horrible.

BENZ-LGB · #97 12-29-2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

That we tended to focus our attentions primarily on military targets was a major difference between us and the Axis.

I hate to appear as if I am siding with the Nazis (here or anywhere else) but Bot, I think that the good citizens of Dresden would disagree with your statement.

LaRondo · #98 12-29-2008, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

That's why we call, Nazis the "former masters" of Europe. .

Never heard of that b4.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

We won the death match by being much better at it than they were. .

It wasn't WE, who won the match. It was THEM. But, if it makes you happy, fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

That we tended to focus our attentions primarily on military targets was a major difference between us and the Axis..

I don't think Israel can claim this kind of difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

"Might made Right" and "Right made Might." A happy convergence for the winners and various dependent groups.

Sounds more like a cheap trick, switch and bait sales tactic, in which case there should be a sign attached:
"Warning! Terrain gets slippery during backfire!

LaRondo · #99 12-29-2008, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

I hate to appear as if I am siding with the Nazis (here or anywhere else) but Bot, I think that the good citizens of Dresden would disagree with your statement.

Now that is brilliant!

Deserving recognition and acknowledgement:

BENZ-LGB · #**100** 12-29-2008, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

Now that is brilliant!

Deserving recognition and acknowledgement:

Save it. Unlike you, I can see both sides of any issue.

LaRondo · #**101** 12-29-2008, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

Save it. Unlike you, I can see both sides of any issue.

Yeah, we're so unlike.

Botnst · #**102** 12-29-2008, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

I hate to appear as if I am siding with the Nazis (here or anywhere else) but Bot, I think that the good citizens of Dresden would disagree with your statement.

"Primarily" is not the same as "always".

mwood · #**103** 12-29-2008, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

I think that B expressed it best: "anyone who disagrees with you is programmed."

Oh the hubris, oh the ego....

...oh the comma's.

LaRondo · #**104** 12-29-2008, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

Incidentally, this thread was DOA the moment you showed your true colors and lack of perspective. Your anti-Semitism is unquestionable.

As for your puerile comments regarding dirt and the such, I will simply ignore them. It is the response that usually works best with unruly children.

I can precisely see, how YOU can see both sides, although you appeare more like the "Nobody Listened" kind of guy.