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  #1  
Old 02-05-2009, 09:16 PM
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Employee Free Choice Act

Currently, employees can choose to join a union through a secret ballot when 50% +1 employees so vote. Under the EFCA, or Card Check, that was co-authored by "O" and which he promised to sign within the first 90 days in office, there would be no secret ballot. Rather, union organizers only need to get the employee to sign the card. If they get enough signed, the union is in. At least that's the initial version of the bill. So what's the need to change the way it is? I believe it will allow unions to intimidate people into signing and give these antiquated organizations a chance to get their foot back into some businesses. It is a way for "O" to pay back the unions that financed a large part of his campaign. What do you think? Are unions still needed, or do they need to just go away? Even if you think they serve a purpose, should the secret ballot be eliminated?

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  #2  
Old 02-05-2009, 09:17 PM
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Coming to a Gulag near you.
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  #3  
Old 02-05-2009, 10:33 PM
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They serve a purpose, which most don't actually serve. I don't see any need to change it, but I wouldn't be intimidated or shy about sharing my feelings with a union rep if the rule were changed. I don't quite see how they would intimidate people.
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  #4  
Old 02-05-2009, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Coming to a Gulag near you.

pray tell, in what way?
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  #5  
Old 02-06-2009, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by tankdriver View Post
They serve a purpose, which most don't actually serve. I don't see any need to change it, but I wouldn't be intimidated or shy about sharing my feelings with a union rep if the rule were changed. I don't quite see how they would intimidate people.
Are you unaware of the history?
The term "Union Thug" came from somewhere, or do you think that it was just colorful langauge?
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  #6  
Old 02-06-2009, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by tonkovich View Post
pray tell, in what way?
In which the ballot is public, the goons who watch balloting note who votes correctly, the preferred guy gets 99% and dissenters, whom everybody know voted the wrong way, get re-educated in forced labor camps. You know, Gulag.

The best way to ensure a proper vote for the right thing is to make balloting public. When you vote in an election do you think poll watchers should know who you are voting for?
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  #7  
Old 02-06-2009, 08:49 AM
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A friend has a medium sized electrical company that unionized, the employees did get access the the pension and health plans which are both incredible but lost on almost every other account because he paid prevailing wage to begin with.

He solicited the union btw, if your company is structured properly there are benefits to being a union shop.
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  #8  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:10 AM
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Let me say that I have worked as a Union employee for the past 16 years. Before that, I have work at a Union (UAW) plant on the shop floor with out being in the union. I have worked as job shops, foreign manufacturing plant (union I believe). Also, mom-n-pop and temp service. I believe unions still have a place in the work force. I also beleive that most present day unions have a very narrow outlook and so do their members. IE, what's my pay scale.
Although most will point to paid holidays, 40 hour work week etc, another gift of the unions is our electrical grid. OK, not the greatest, but compared to most countries, its excellent. Part of our electrical grid was established with and because of having a skilled work force. THe IBEC set up training for its union members. Also, initiated saftey procedures.
Now how many of you have worked at a place that told you how to complain if you thoguht you weren't being treated fairly or in accordance with the law. I was working at one place, and the job at hand seemed dangerous or unsafe to me. I refused to do the job. I figured I was going to get an earfull or possible get fired. Didn't happen. I learned latter, that they can't force you to do a job deemed unsafe. Also, they don't come out a tell you the work laws as far as giving notice, paid vacation rules etc. Lawyers cost money, and if your out of a job, good luck paying for one.
So unions balance the field of play. If unions should be outlawed, then maybe corporation should be outlawed. They are sort of a union of investers. Considering the present economic colapse, I think I'd blame Corperate America, than the unions.
Tom
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:16 AM
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Woo boy what a can of worms! Unions were fine in back in the day; now they are just protection for lazy workers. All three shops I manage are union and I can't even talk negativly to one of my employees with out possible reprecussions. If unions are so why do they not have internal performance measures to weed out the people that are lazy? it's because they do not want to lose those dues paying slackers. I am sure there are many instances where there are good relations betwee a union and management but I do not knwo of many.
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
Are you unaware of the history?
The term "Union Thug" came from somewhere, or do you think that it was just colorful langauge?
Now is not then. You can't bully someone like that now. Heck, you can't even offend someone now.

The union thug has gone the way of the Pinkerton.
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  #11  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by shoe View Post
I am sure there are many instances where there are good relations betwee a union and management but I do not knwo of many.
I would expect there to be few cases in which there are good relations between union and management since their interests differ significantly. That's the reason why unions are necessary to protect the market value of the private property of workers (their labor). Management is focused on making the highest profit which includes keeping labor costs as low as possible. Workers certainly are not focused on lowering their own wages. Under the structure of corporate capitalism it seems impossible that management and labor would ever have the same interests.
The only place I know where the interests of management and labor merge are in cooperative corporations like the Mondragon Cooperatives.
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by tankdriver View Post
Now is not then. You can't bully someone like that now. Heck, you can't even offend someone now.

The union thug has gone the way of the Pinkerton.
I have read that WalMart has anti-union swat teams sent out to locations where workers are considering unionizing. So managerial bullying may not use Pinkertons or Baldwin-Felts anymore but management has a huge threat hanging over workers who need their jobs and could be fired.
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  #13  
Old 02-06-2009, 11:30 AM
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If joining a union is such a good idea, then a secret ballot would not be an issue. They would still win in a fair and secret election. Any time a group wants to 'mold' the democratic process I get anxious...
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Old 02-06-2009, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by tankdriver View Post
Now is not then. You can't bully someone like that now. Heck, you can't even offend someone now.

The union thug has gone the way of the Pinkerton.

Haha! Union thugs are alive and well in the South. Go to a joint legislative budget committee meeting in the South on a day when labor bills are on the table. There's be plenty of AFL-CIO and railroad large guys making a point to stand rather than sit in the back. I don't think they do many beat downs anymore, but they lean on legislators pretty hard, and usually take their revenge through character assassination and the like during elections. They're also pretty good about making sure there are always escorts hanging about in the bars after the sessions retire. I'm sure there are more than a few rural legislators in my state who are scared of pictures making it to their wives.
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  #15  
Old 02-06-2009, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by tankdriver View Post
Now is not then. You can't bully someone like that now. Heck, you can't even offend someone now.

The union thug has gone the way of the Pinkerton.
Changing the current laws may bring them back.
People do brutal things to amass and use power.
I think you are being a bit naive.

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