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  #1  
Old 02-12-2009, 12:13 AM
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300 million..For green golf carts!!.....

Oh My..........

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02112009/news/politics/congress_hopping_carts_154496.htm

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  #2  
Old 02-12-2009, 12:29 AM
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Those are American made green golf carts made in Michigan I believe. More jobs in Michigan to build 35,000 electric vehicles, cleaner air, less dependence on foreign oil. This ones not that bad. Though it may stimulate the economy a bit, those ugly things don't stimulate me at all.
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  #3  
Old 02-12-2009, 12:38 AM
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Electric vehicles don't save energy, they just shift the consumption to a different location. The only way to save energy is to consume less and/or build engines that are more efficient (if we are talking cars).

Nobody talks about it, but imagine if electric cars really got popular. Imagine what the battery disposal problem would become on that scale?

Every new technology has benefits *and* costs.
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Old 02-12-2009, 02:09 AM
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Looks like by the time we go green, there won't be any green left to spend.
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  #5  
Old 02-12-2009, 05:19 AM
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Now if we can get them to budget in some windmills to charge those cars up with we may have something.

But if your plugging them into the local coal burning electric plant,, not so good.

The newer lithium polymer batteries are not nearly as nasty as the old lead acid.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichC View Post
Now if we can get them to budget in some windmills to charge those cars up with we may have something.

But if your plugging them into the local coal burning electric plant,, not so good.

The newer lithium polymer batteries are not nearly as nasty as the old lead acid.
windmills? but what about the birds!! Not in my backyard!

I wonder if the impact on the birds is exaggerated and they would learn not to fly near windfarms if they noticed a bunch of their buddies getting turned into slurry.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmerich View Post
Electric vehicles don't save energy, they just shift the consumption to a different location. The only way to save energy is to consume less and/or build engines that are more efficient (if we are talking cars).

Nobody talks about it, but imagine if electric cars really got popular. Imagine what the battery disposal problem would become on that scale?

Every new technology has benefits *and* costs.
Do you imagine many people DIYing their batteries? I dont see it as the same problem as your neighbor dumping motor oil or coolant into the sewers.

I do love the short sighted thinking of electric vehicle = no emissions though. I saw a news story of some guy bragging about that. I think it was Neil Young's EV.. big ole 60's land barge with who knows how many batteries in it. No emissions!
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Old 02-12-2009, 07:30 AM
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It's just as easy to dump a battery into the trash as it is to dump motor oil in the sewer. I got a great idea... let's just ship them to china when we don't need them anymore!
Change! Change! CHANGE! CHANGE!!!
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  #9  
Old 02-12-2009, 08:02 AM
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I love it. It's a great business opportunity for those who are willing to put in a little bit of work.

The government is giving away money. Go get yourself some.
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Old 02-12-2009, 08:13 AM
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from the reader responses:

I'll take Pelosi's million for a rat (I'm sure, like everything from you tools, this is over-embellished ignores the forest for the sapling) over Bush's trillion for that rathole, Iraq.

You Conservatives are so phony and everybody sees it. You sat by for eight years and said nothing as Bush and his Congress screwed up everything and managed to drive us further into debt. He already cut taxes and and we didn't get any new jobs, except for Blackwater and body-bag makers in New Orleans.
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  #11  
Old 02-12-2009, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichC View Post
Now if we can get them to budget in some windmills to charge those cars up with we may have something.

But if your plugging them into the local coal burning electric plant,, not so good.

The newer lithium polymer batteries are not nearly as nasty as the old lead acid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ara T. View Post
windmills? but what about the birds!! Not in my backyard!

I wonder if the impact on the birds is exaggerated and they would learn not to fly near windfarms if they noticed a bunch of their buddies getting turned into slurry.
I like the windmill plan. Vertical axis windmills would be better since they can collect small wind and their design is much friendlier to birds. They could make towers that are like vertical axis turbine totem poles to maximize the power generation.
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  #12  
Old 02-12-2009, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt SD300 View Post
You're going to have to elaborate on this one. There is apparently something funny, stupid, or odd about that expenditure. Looks like stimulus to me. What, specifically, am I missing?
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  #13  
Old 02-12-2009, 09:11 AM
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Interesting note on Batteries.

First, if disposed of properly, ie recycled, Lead Acid batteries are extremely recoverable and fairly eco friendly.

The fun part is Li batteries, while Lithium is actually a very common element on earth, it is VERY rare in minable quantities. Technically as of now there are basically 2 mines in South America that can produce it economically in usable quantities.

BUT, depending on who you believe, if our automakers embark on major battery powered cars using Li batteries, the mines will be depleted in 3 to 5 or less than 10 years.

And I do not believe it is recycable.

So Lead Acid, heavy and limited storage capacity.
NiCad, Very Environmentally unfriendly, with limited rechargablity.
Li, limited supply, although light weight, high storage capacity.


So really before we can go to electric vehicles and Solar for our houses (IMHO the best solutions to eliminate dependence on foriegn Oil and eliminating pollution), we NEED to develop a better battery technology.
Or maybe the term should be storage technology, as one interesting solar technology uses excess electricty produced from solar during the day to generate Hydrogen, which then is used to power a fuel cell producing electricity at night.
I do not like Fuel cells generally, but this one was a closed system, during the day break up the H and O, at night recombine.
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  #14  
Old 02-12-2009, 11:03 AM
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Part of the electrical equation might be efficiency. Some electric motors have 90% efficiency rating or slightly better. The problem might be transfering or sending of the electrical power. I think there is only an 80% efficiency in transforming electricity from higher voltage to lower voltage. I have also heard of using basically capacitors to store electricity.
Tom

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