Stimulus bill -- sorry, I have to ask - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cscmc1 · #1 02-13-2009, 10:22 AM

Does ANYONE else have a problem with the way this juggernaut of a bill is being shoved through? What happened to that promised 48 hour public viewing period before a vote? Now Sen. Frank Lautenberg says he doesn't of his colleagues will "have a chance" to read it before the final vote.

What happened to that transparency O promised us? This is getting a bit creepy...

LUVMBDiesels · #2 02-13-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cscmc1

Does ANYONE else have a problem with the way this juggernaut of a bill is being shoved through? What happened to that promised 48 hour public viewing period before a vote? Now Sen. Frank Lautenberg says he doesn't of his colleagues will "have a chance" to read it before the final vote.

Anytime the government says that they need to do something quickly makes me wonder what is really going on. The idea that the rest of the Congress won't even have time to read the bill but will have to vote on it regardless is just ducky...

Quote:

Originally Posted by cscmc1

What happened to that transparency O promised us? This is getting a bit creepy...

I agree 100%

pj67coll · #3 02-13-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cscmc1

Does ANYONE else have a problem with the way this juggernaut of a bill is being shoved through? What happened to that promised 48 hour public viewing period before a vote? Now Sen. Frank Lautenberg says he doesn't of his colleagues will "have a chance" to read it before the final vote.

What happened to that transparency O promised us? This is getting a bit creepy...

There were plenty of people who were not fooled by his campaign BS. Evidently though, not enough to keep him out of office.

- Peter.

jaoneill · #4 02-13-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvmbdiesels

anytime the government says that they need to do something quickly makes me wonder what is really going on. The idea that the rest of the congress won't even have time to read the bill but will have to vote on it regardless is just ducky...

I agree 100%

x2

450slcguy · #5 02-13-2009, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cscmc1

Does ANYONE else have a problem with the way this juggernaut of a bill is being shoved through? What happened to that promised 48 hour public viewing period before a vote? Now Sen. Frank Lautenberg says he doesn't of his colleagues will "have a chance" to read it before the final vote.

What happened to that transparency O promised us? This is getting a bit creepy...

Did you even make an attempt to search the web to view the Bill? It's there for all to see.

What exactly are the members of congress doing that they don't have the "time" to read the bill before voting?

Matt SD300 · #6 02-13-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

Did you even make an attempt to search the web to view the Bill? It's there for all to see.

LINK??..............

450slcguy · #7 02-13-2009, 11:16 AM

Google "stimulus bill" and take your pick.

Graplr · #8 02-13-2009, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cscmc1

Does ANYONE else have a problem with the way this juggernaut of a bill is being shoved through? What happened to that promised 48 hour public viewing period before a vote? Now Sen. Frank Lautenberg says he doesn't of his colleagues will "have a chance" to read it before the final vote.

What happened to that transparency O promised us? This is getting a bit creepy...

It is not just Obama. Bush did the exact same thing when the original stimulus bill was presented. He said it needs to be approved immediately. Not tomorrow or next week, today.

cscmc1 · #9 02-13-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

Did you even make an attempt to search the web to view the Bill? It's there for all to see.

What exactly are the members of congress doing that they don't have the "time" to read the bill before voting?

I understand that the final version of the bill was posted at 11pm last night. 1400 some pages, if I am not mistaken. If that is accurate, my criticism stands, and frankly, I am really surprised that folks don't seem to have a problem with shoving through this level of spending so quickly.

From http://readthestimulus.org/ :

"
48 Hour Review Period After Conference?
Posted at 4:25 pm on Wednesday, February 11, 2009

An interesting resolution came from the House yesterday as they officially sent their representatives into conference with the Senate to resolve the differences in the two passed bill versions:

From yesterday's Congressional Record, Page H1096:

Mr. LEWIS of California moves to instruct the managers on the part of the House that they shall not record their approval of the final conference agreement (as such term is used in clause 12(a)(4) of rule XXII of the Rules of the House of Representatives) unless the text of such agreement has been available to the managers in an electronic, searchable, and downloadable form for at least 48 hours prior to the time described in such clause.

This instruction passed unanimously in a recorded vote. So in theory, talk of votes on Thursday or Friday this week are nonsense, unless the House decides to completely ignore this vote. There is some wiggle room to be had as the instructions specify that the text must be available to managers in the House, not the general public, but that still can't be strictly true at least until final bill text is ready.

It would seem legitimate to expect the House to abide by this vote --- and if it doesn't, to ask why not...."

diametricalbenz · #10 02-13-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

There were plenty of people who were not fooled by his campaign BS. Evidently though, not enough to keep him out of office.

- Peter.

And his competitor had better BS??

MS Fowler · #11 02-13-2009, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

Did you even make an attempt to search the web to view the Bill? It's there for all to see.

What exactly are the members of congress doing that they don't have the "time" to read the bill before voting?

There were 2 bills, the House one, and the Senate one. Each ran close to 1000 pages.

The conference Bill is at about 1400 pages.

No, they do NOT read what they vote. I have heard various politicians use that alibi before, saying, " If we had known what was in the Bill, we would not have supported it..."
Yes they have staff people to read and make "digest" versions for them, but the langauge is purposely obtuse precisely to render it difficult to comprehend.In the end a nonelected beaurcrat will decide what was really meant.

cscmc1 · #12 02-13-2009, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graplr

It is not just Obama. Bush did the exact same thing when the original stimulus bill was presented. He said it needs to be approved immediately. Not tomorrow or next week, today.

I wasn't real impressed with that one either... I am genuinely a bit surprised by this move, though, with all the talk of transparency we heard from O during the campaign. I'm not a big fan of the guy, but I honestly did hope that he might stand by that commitment.

Mistress · #13 02-13-2009, 11:57 AM

quin esso juggernaut?

cjlipps · #14 02-13-2009, 11:58 AM

The bill is probably deliberately cumbersome so it will get pushed through before everyone can really digest what's going on.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123310466514522309.html

MTI · #15 02-13-2009, 12:04 PM

Has there ever been "a study" of how many lawmakers actually read legislation, regardless of its length or breadth? Historically, how many have claimed to have read and comprehended 100% of the prior budgets?