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  #16  
Old 03-22-2009, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jplinville View Post
I have taken the flu shot every year for the last 6 years, and have yet to get sick from it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jplinville View Post
I had the flu shot in December, so if anything, I'll get a few days of aches and pains.
So wich one, make up your mind!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jplinville View Post
Each formulation is changed each year to include different strains fo the flu. It forces your body to build the antibodies to fight it.

She has not smoked in years, but much of the damage came from living in the LA area with the polution.

She is a survivor of breast cancer, and due to the treatments she underwent, she can't take the flu vaccine for 2 more years.

I took her to the hospital this morning where she was admitted for pneumonia, another vaccine that she can't take for 2 years.

Thanks for coming across as an a$$


I am aware how vaccination works.
I have never taken the flu shot (and never will) and yet to get the flu.
There are millions of people living in LA area and they don't have weak lungs, obviously smoking is/was a great contributor.
I have no sympathy for people who knowingly cause themselves health problems.
And you get off your pedestal, your fiancée is not the only one around here who have survived cancer.
You can put whatever you want into your body but don't tell people that they should do it too because your fiancée has weak health.

"The truth is, while the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and most mainstream docs are pushing the flu vaccine, the latest science suggests it just doesn't work very well. So, should you or shouldn't you? Here, the answers to your flu-shot questions.

How effective is the shot?
The flu shot is only as good as the educated guesses of a group of vaccine researchers across the globe. Every February, they try to predict which flu viruses will work their evil during the next fall and winter. Their three top choices are put into the vaccine. The CDC claims that vaccine will be 70 to 90 percent effective against just those strains of flu.

"We hope that these smart scientists who get together with the vaccine producers make the right call," says immunologist Dr. Randy Horwitz, medical director of the University of Arizona's School for Integrative Medicine. But sometimes they don't, partly because the virus mutates from year to year. In 2003-2004, the CDC admitted that it completely missed the virulent Fujian flu strain that hit hard that winter."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/10/31/flu.hm.flu.shot/

"Some doctors and scientists believe that flu shot risks are only slightly increased by the presence of thimerosal in the vaccine, however a group of doctors and scientists recently established a link between thimerosal presence in vaccines and autism. Because of this link, New York recently passed a law banning the use of thimerosal in vaccines or flu shots to be given to young children and pregnant women.

Many health care professionals believe that the dangers of flu shots are not limited to pregnant women and young children and that thimerosal use as a preservative should be banned by the Food and Drug Administration. Thimerosal is mercury based and is a known neurotoxin, meaning it is a poison that damages or destroys nerve tissue. So, concerns about flu shot risks are similar to concerns about unsafe levels of mercury in the fish we eat and in our environment.

Guillain-Barre syndrome may be one of the dangers of flu shots. This is a disease in which the body damages it's own nerve cells resulting in muscle weakness, paralysis and sometimes permanent nerve damage. The syndrome was first associated with the swine flu shots of 1976, but a subsequent study concluded that Guillain-Barre syndrome was one of the possible flu shot risks."

http://ezinearticles.com/?Dangers-of-Flu-Shots&id=274215

"The CDC does not explain the flu shot risks associated with past reactions or if typical flu shot side effects which include fever, body aches and soreness, redness or swelling at the point of injection, should be of concern."

Wow, great prevention, makes you as sick as the real illness might.

So go ahead, poison yourself if you like but telling others to do the same is irresponsible.
Obviously you have a great love for vaccinations.
I like to give my body the first fighting chance and not put chemicals, with dubious value and effectiveness, into it unnecessarily.

Not having sympathy for a self caused illness doesn't make me an a$$, but if you think it does then you can kiss that a$$.

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  #17  
Old 03-22-2009, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dacia View Post
I have never taken the flu shot (and never will) and yet to get the flu.

suggests it just doesn't work very well.

"We hope that these smart scientists who get together with the vaccine producers make the right call,"

Many health care professionals believe that the dangers of flu shots are not limited to pregnant women and young children and that thimerosal use as a preservative should be banned by the Food and Drug Administration. Thimerosal is mercury based and is a known neurotoxin, meaning it is a poison that damages or destroys nerve tissue. So, concerns about flu shot risks are similar to concerns about unsafe levels of mercury in the fish we eat and in our environment.

Guillain-Barre syndrome may be one of the dangers of flu shots. This is a disease in which the body damages it's own nerve cells resulting in muscle weakness, paralysis and sometimes permanent nerve damage. The syndrome was first associated with the swine flu shots of 1976, but a subsequent study concluded that Guillain-Barre syndrome was one of the possible flu shot risks."

Wow, great prevention, makes you as sick as the real illness might.

So go ahead, poison yourself if you like but telling others to do the same is irresponsible.

I like to give my body the first fighting chance and not put chemicals, with dubious value and effectiveness, into it unnecessarily.

Not having sympathy for a self caused illness doesn't make me an a$$, but if you think it does then you can kiss that a$$.
So you are claiming that not taking the flu vaccine is a certain way to NOT get the flu?

"suggest"? Is that like a "certain", "very certain", "proved" or "SWAG"?

You want a guarantee? Buy a toaster, as they say. IF you want every single strain, I'm sure that could be arranged but it might be a long process to immunize against every single strain.

"believe" is the key word. When it changes to "proved", I would think it carries more weight.

"may" and "possible". Great. See above.

No. Again, there is no guarantee that you WILL get those side effects. That is the reason they are listed as a POSSIBLE side effect.

You would be good at writing drama.

Aren't vaccinations generally killed or weakened virus? As to not wanting dubious stuff in you, most of the claims are about as unproven. Excerpts http://www.cdc.gov/FLU/ABOUT/QA/thimerosal.htm

There is no convincing evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site. However, in July 1999 the Public Health Service (PHS) agencies, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), and vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure.

Is it safe for children to receive an influenza vaccine that contains thimerosal?

Yes. There is no convincing evidence of harm caused by the small amount of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor effects like swelling and redness at the injection site due to sensitivity to thimerosal. Most importantly, since 1999, newly formulated thimerosal preservative-free childhood vaccines (Hepatitis B, Hib, and DTaP) have been licensed. With the newly formulated childhood vaccines, the maximum total exposure during the first six months of life will now be less than three micrograms of mercury. Based on guidelines established by the FDA, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR), no child will receive excessive mercury from childhood vaccines regardless of whether or not their flu shot contains thimerosal as a preservative.

Is it safe for pregnant women to receive an influenza vaccine that contains thimerosal?

Yes. A study of influenza vaccination examining over 2,000 pregnant women demonstrated no adverse fetal effects associated with influenza vaccine. Case reports and limited studies indicate that pregnancy can increase the risk for serious medical complications of influenza. One study found that out of every 10,000 women in their third trimester of pregnancy during an average flu season, 25 will be hospitalized for flu related complications.


I'm sure you can pay someone to do that for you.
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Last edited by aklim; 03-22-2009 at 10:31 PM.
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  #18  
Old 03-22-2009, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dacia View Post
So wich one, make up your mind!
2 days of aches and pains is much better than the full load of the flu.

You're showing yourself to be an a$$hat here dude...back off a few notches.

If you don't want to take the damned shot, then don't. Just don't come here crying when you get sick.
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  #19  
Old 03-23-2009, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jplinville View Post
2 days of aches and pains is much better than the full load of the flu.
I think you are missing the biggest parts.

1. It is MAYBE 2 days. Maybe not even that. Many have taken it WITHOUT the 2 days. Just boilerplate precautions.

2. Lets say you get 2 days for the sake or argument. It is 2 days that YOU can control. IOW, I can schedule it. When you have full load flu, you cannot schedule it.
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  #20  
Old 03-23-2009, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
I think you are missing the biggest parts.

1. It is MAYBE 2 days. Maybe not even that. Many have taken it WITHOUT the 2 days. Just boilerplate precautions.

2. Lets say you get 2 days for the sake or argument. It is 2 days that YOU can control. IOW, I can schedule it. When you have full load flu, you cannot schedule it.
No...I'll get 2 days of aches and pains instead of the full flu. I had the shot back in November or December of last year. At least that's what the doctor told me again today at the hospital.
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  #21  
Old 10-20-2009, 09:18 PM
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Isn't it odd that seemingly every news report about the delivery of the H1N1 vaccine, that the "teaser" leading to the story always has "Is it safe?" as part of the pitch?

Just for a second, suppose that the answer was "No, it's not safe" or "We really don't know if it is or not." . . . would it then make much sense that physicians and nurses are 1) going to be the test subjects; and 2) that the plaintiff attorneys of the US aren't lined up filing suits in court?

From Wired Magazine:

MYTH 1: Vaccines cause autism.
FACT: Until 2001, vaccines included thimerosal, a preservative containing ethylmercury. Mercury, of course, can cause neurological damage. But there’s scientific consensus that the amount once used in vaccines — around 50 micrograms per 0.5-ml dose — was far short of toxic. And autism rates have continued to climb, suggesting that there’s either a different cause or, more likely, that a better understanding of the condition has increased diagnoses. A comprehensive review of the research, conducted in 2004 by the prestigious Institute of Medicine, found no evidence of a connection between vaccines and autism. None.

MYTH 2: Giving too many vaccines overwhelms a child’s immune system.
FACT: This argument echoes the “too much of a good thing” chestnut, but there’s no science behind it. With millions of vaccines administered every year, a handful of allergic reactions do happen. But severe cases are so rare that the CDC cannot calculate a statistical risk for the population — the numbers are just too small.

MYTH 3: Vaccines cause diabetes.
FACT: This idea relies on the flawed work of one doctor, who gathered data on a slew of vaccines and failed to follow standard study protocols. No other study — including those using the same data — could reproduce the results. The CDC and the Institute of Medicine have both dismissed any possible link. This argument also ignores the obvious and well-established fact that diabetes rates in children are climbing because obesity rates are climbing.

MYTH 4: Vaccines are no longer necessary, because the diseases are no longer a threat.
FACT: The opposite is true. Because of vaccines, diseases that once killed millions are now invisible. But if only a few families stop vaccinating, the illnesses could reemerge in a community. And the diseases are horrible — mumps and Haemophilus influenzae type b cause meningitis, which can lead to deafness, epilepsy, and cognitive impairment. Measles can lead to encephalitis, blindness, and death.

MYTH 5: Scientists are divided about the safety of vaccines.
FACT: By any measure of scientific consensus, there is total agreement: Vaccines are safe, effective, and necessary. Twelve studies have shown that the measles/mumps/rubella vaccine is safe. Many other studies have disproved the theory that the Hib shot is toxic. The few dissenters get lots of attention, but it’s always the same old names.

MYTH 6: Aluminum in vaccines is just as toxic as mercury.
FACT: Aluminum, the most common metal in nature, is perfectly safe in small amounts. (A dose of antacid has about 1,000 times as much as a vaccine does.) Aluminum salts are used in vaccines to increase antibody response. They make it possible to use less vaccine less often.


Look, if an ideology or philosophical war is being waged on science, then the attackers should at least get their science and facts in order. . . and the media should not be aiding and abetting in this hoax scare.
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  #22  
Old 10-20-2009, 11:05 PM
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Germans Unhappy with Alternative Swine Flu Vaccine for Politicians

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,656028,00.html

Damage control is the name of the game in Berlin on Monday as politicians rush to deny that they are receiving a better, safer swine flu vaccine than ordinary Germans. The first of 50 million doses arrived in Germany on Monday.

One might think that the arrival in Germany of the first of 50 million doses of swine flu vaccine on Monday might be cause for celebration. But with news breaking over the weekend that top government officials in Berlin will be injected with an alternative vaccine -- one widely seen as safer -- a debate about an alleged two-class medical system has erupted.

SPIEGEL over the weekend reported that Chancellor Angela Merkel, a number of her ministers and other government officials would receive a vaccine manufactured by the pharmaceutical company Baxter -- the same vaccine that the German military opted for, as was reported last week.

The mass-circulation tabloid Bild on Monday plastered the story on its front page on Monday, assuring its readers that "experts are accusing the government" of serving up "second class medicine" to ordinary Germans.

Fevers and Headaches

The controversy centers on an additive included in the vaccine manufactured by pharmaceutical giant GlaxoSmithKline. The additive includes an inactive strain of the entire flu virus as opposed to virus fragments. Critics say the additive can increase the risk of side effects from the flu vaccine such as fevers and headaches.

Supporters counter that the additive is safe, and its use allows the drug manufacturer to quickly produce more doses of the vaccine. The SPIEGEL story mentioned that the GlaxoSmithKline vaccine, with the additive, has undergone more testing than the Baxter version.

An Interior Ministry spokesman told SPIEGEL that the Baxter vaccine had been ordered for all ministries and other agencies as well as for the employees of the Paul Ehrlich Institute, the authority responsible for approving vaccines.

Merkel's spokesman Ulrich Wilhelm on Monday denied that Merkel was taking a different vaccine than the one available to ordinary Germans. He said that the Baxter vaccine had been ordered four months ago as part of a deal hammered out one year ago and has nothing to do with recent concerns surrounding the GlaxoSmithKline vaccine.

'Second-Class Medicine'

Still, voices have become raised. The Green Party's health expert Biggi Bender said that the separate vaccines amount to "big risk for the people, little risk for the government. This type of second-class medicine cannot be allowed to exist in a democracy."

Leading physicians also complained about the planned vaccination. The head of the Institute for Hygiene and Public Health at the University of Bonn, Martin Exner, said: "The fact that politicians and top civil servants in ministries will be vaccinated with a vaccine other than the people is a terrible sign. Today politicians must take what they recommend."

Virologist Alexander Kekulé Hall of the University Hospital said the fact "that the members of the Federal Government and the authorities have any other vaccine is a scandal."

The Interior Ministry has also rejected the sharp criticism. A spokeswoman for Interior Minister Wolfgang Schäuble pointed out that at that time the Baxter vaccine was ordered the differences between the two vaccines was not yet an issue. The Paul Ehrlich Institute has repeatedly defended its decision to provide the population with the GlaxoSmithKline version, known as Pandemrix.

'Alleged Threat'

Germany is not the only government working to contain a potential outbreak of swine flu, the popular though inaccurate name given to the H1N1 flu virus. The UK has seen an increase in cases in recent weeks. As a result, the country has purchased 60 million doses of Pandemrix. Since swine flu emerged, a number of people in the US showing symptoms have died, leading the government to purchase 251 million doses of the swine flu vaccine from various manufacturers. The European Medicines Agency approved Pandemrix for use recently, amid concern for the upcoming winter flu season and the expected uptick in swine flu cases.

Some German politicians have joined Merkel in opting out of the alternative vaccine. Health Minister Ulla Schmidt said in Bild, "I will allow myself to be vaccinated with the same vaccine as the people. It is exactly like the other approved vaccine, safe and effective."

The weekend scandal has drowned out a second debate which has been raging in recent weeks in the US and which has also found resonance here in Germany: whether such a massive vaccination program is necessary in the first place.

Wolf-Dieter Ludwig, chairman of the Drug Commission of the German Medical Association, has called the planned vaccination campaign a "scandal." "The health authorities have fallen for a campaign from the pharmaceutical companies, who simply want to earn money with an alleged threat," he told SPIEGEL.
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  #23  
Old 10-20-2009, 11:29 PM
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I have met Jplinville's fiance she is alive and well. OTOH I refuse to take the new shot, let's see how I fare. Stay tuned.
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  #24  
Old 10-20-2009, 11:47 PM
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Well it looks like some people did get their science and facts in order:
Oct 3, 2009
Canada: Study prompts provinces to rethink flu plan
Report suggests people who get vaccinated are more likely to catch H1N1.
.
A “perplexing” Canadian study linking H1N1 to seasonal flu shots is throwing national influenza plans into disarray and testing public faith in the government agencies responsible for protecting the nation's health.
.
Met with intense early skepticism both in Canada and abroad, the paper has since convinced several provincial health agencies to announce hasty suspensions of seasonal flu vaccinations, long-held fixtures of public-health planning.
.
On Sunday Quebec joined Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario and Nova Scotia in suspending seasonal flu shots for anyone under 65 years of age. Quebec's Health Ministry announced it would postpone vaccinations until January, clearing the autumn months for health professionals to focus on vaccinating against H1N1, which is expected to the more severe influenza strain this season.
.
There are a large number of authors, all of them excellent and credible researchers,” he said. “And the sample size is very large – 12 or 13 million people taken from the central reporting systems in three provinces. The research is solid.”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15516

When a government is pushing something so very hard, even though it costs the government tons of money, something is up.

They are talking about making the shot mandatory for everyone in France.

Sarkozy’s Secret Plan for Mandatory Swine Flu Vaccination
.
"According to a report in the May 30 edition of the French newspaper, Le Journal du Dimanche, the Sarkozy government has authorized spending of an estimated €1 billion to buy vaccines allegedly to combat or protect against H1N1 Swine Flu virus. The only problem is that to date neither the WHO nor the US Government’s Center for Diseases Control (CDC) have succeeded to isolate, photograph with an electron microscope and chemically classify the H1N1 Influenza A virus. There is no scientifically published evidence that French virologists have done so either. To mandate drugs for a putative disease that has not even been characterized is dubious to say the least.

Even more bizarre is the admission by the US Government’s Food & Drug Administration, an agency responsible for health and safety of its citizens, that the ‘test’ is approved for premature release to test for H1N1 is not even a proven test. More to the point, there is no forensic evidence in any of the deaths reported to date that has been presented that proves scientifically that any single death being attributed to H1N1 Swine Flu virus was indeed caused by such a virus. European epidemiologists believe the deaths reported to date are ‘coincidental’ or what are called opportunistic infections."
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13835

People surely know about this little fiasco:
"In 1976 in the US President Gerald Ford, nervous about winning a close election ordered mass immunisation of the population in the face of a possible pandemic to show voters he was a ‘hands on’ President. The 1976 pandemic never came but a vast number of people suffered serious neurological side effects from the vaccine that was rushed into production, including 25 reported deaths from Guillain-Barré syndrome."

Quote:
Just for a second, suppose that the answer was "No, it's not safe" or "We really don't know if it is or not." . . . would it then make much sense that physicians and nurses are 1) going to be the test subjects; and 2) that the plaintiff attorneys of the US aren't lined up filing suits in court?
It looks like some healthcare professionals do not like to be the "test subjects":
Nurses to sue New York over vaccination mandate
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15674

Lawsuit to Attempt to Stop Swine Flu Vaccinations
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15607

Brits Protest Mandatory Vaccinations
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15401

Hi, I am form the government and I am here to help.
Sure.

Ineffectiveness and Dangers of Flu Shots
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15536

"In the October 2006 British Medical Journal, Dr. Tom Jefferson wrote about "Influenza vaccination: policy versus evidence" and concluded:

"Evidence from systematic reviews shows that inactivated vaccines have little or no effect on the effects measured. (In addition), Little comparative evidence exists on the safety of these vaccines....The optimistic and confident tone of some predictions of viral circulation and the impact of inactivated vaccines, which are at odds with the evidence, is striking. The reasons are probably complex and may involve a messy blend of truth and conflicts of interest making it difficult to separate factual disputes from value disputes."

In other words, influenza vaccination programs are ineffective and worthless. They're also dangerous."


Now this might be a bit far fetched but who knows, there is serious talk about reducing the Earth's population:

"On September 29, Wall Street Journal writers Jonathan Rockoff and Peter Loftus explained that the industry believes vaccines:

"will become an increasingly important source of growth to replace aging blockbusters that are poised to lose patent protection. Vaccine sales are growing faster than sales of other prescription medicines and are largely immune to the generic competition that is already cost drug makers billions of dollars in revenues on their top-selling treatments. Moreover, government agencies both in the US and around the world are increasingly reliable buyers of vaccines as they seek to stockpile medicines that could help protect the public in case of a major flu outbreak."

Or perhaps, in the case of Swine Flu, infect it as part of a sinister depopulation scheme through involuntary male and/or female sterilization and future deadly illnesses while rewarding producers with hundreds of billions in profits from global inoculations over the next few years. For what may be planned, it doesn't get any better than that. As a result, the public is cautioned to ignore media and official hype and stay safe by refusing all vaccines, especially the new Swine Flu ones that may, in fact, be bioweapons."

So I rather have my immune system do its job and fight than take something that is dangerous to my health.

Last edited by dacia; 10-20-2009 at 11:53 PM.
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  #25  
Old 10-21-2009, 12:14 AM
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I've never had a flu shot, just because I've never gotten around to it or didn't really care lol...

Don't need one now especially, I already caught it in mid september.. It did suck though.. a lot cause I got it and two days later I went to a football game I was looking forward to and felt like crap the whole game -_-
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Old 10-21-2009, 01:51 AM
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dacia . . . only one website has your documentation? The first link you posted is referring to a paper that isn't peer reviewed yet? The second is a story from a French weekly paper? The rest of the "sources" equally dubious . . . very convincing.
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  #27  
Old 10-21-2009, 02:00 AM
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Too late for the kid here. Some kind of flu has descended upon me - first time in 7 years - and I feel like hell.
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Old 10-21-2009, 05:39 AM
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I've been getting a flu vaccination every year since I joined the Navy. It's required. The bad part is they usually do them kind of late and most years I've already had the flu before I get the shot. This year I had the opportunity to get it in September. H1N1 wasn't out yet, and my unit will probably get that shot in December. On the off chance that they make it voluntary (unlikely), I'll probably decline on the grounds that: 1. I get enough needles stuck in me by corpsmen already and 2. The U.S. Navy has not adopted my "shot for a shot" idea. In this, any injection would be accompanied by a gratuitous serving of Jameson, or maybe Bushmills. I'd even be happy with Powers.
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Old 10-21-2009, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by JordaanDMC-12 View Post
I already caught it in mid september.. It did suck though.. a lot cause I got it and two days later I went to a football game I was looking forward to and felt like crap the whole game -_-
Try thinking of other people and stay home when you're sick!

To avoid the flu in the first place, wash hands obsessively and take Vitamin D.
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Old 10-21-2009, 08:42 AM
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Yeah, people who are sick definitely need to stay home. wearing a mask doesn't help. It just makes you look stupid.
Most people take vitamin C when they get sick. However vitamin D & B vitamins are much more effective.

The difference between H1N1 and influenza is influenza usually dies off during the summer months. H1N1 didn't, it's still out there and gaining strength. The deaths from this aren't being reported but there are people dying from this.

In most cases the deaths are from a secondary infection. The influenza weekens the imune system allowing the H1N1 to take hold. And with an already depressed immune system, it's difficult to get over. That's why people who contract the H1N1 without the flu usually get over it with only mild symptoms.
One of the most common signs to look for are flu symptoms followed by feeling better then coming down with flu symptoms again. If this happens to you get to a hospital right away!

As a side note, people born before 1950 have an immunity to H1N1. That's because they would be old enough to have gone through and been exposed to the great flu epidemic. That epidemic was similar to the H1N1 and they will have an immunity to it.

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