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  #1  
Old 04-08-2009, 04:08 PM
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NY Post artical for those on the right only

Please do not read if you are on the left
this was very well written for those who dont agree with the leftest
i have already been labeled an infractionest so i dont want to go too far being out numbered on this site

APPEASING ISLAMISTS IN TURKEY


Ralph Peters
April 8, 2009

New York Post Online

THE real climax of President Obama's Spring Apologies Tour wasn't his photo op with our troops in Baghdad or even his "American Guilt" concerts in Western Europe.

While fans in the press cheered wildly at every venue, the real performance came in Turkey. And it was a turkey.

Obama means well. Just as Jimmy Carter, his policy godfather, meant well. But the road to embassy takeovers and strategic humiliation is paved with good intentions -- coupled with distressing naivete.

On every stage, Obama draped Lady Liberty in sackcloth and ashes, drawing plentiful applause but no serious economic or security cooperation in return. Then, in Turkey, he surrendered our national pride, undercut our interests and interfered in matters that aren't his business.

On the latter point: Suppose the European Union president went to Cuba and insisted that the world's sunniest concentration camp should be welcomed into NAFTA? That's the equivalent of what our president did in Ankara on Monday when he declared that he supports Turkey's bid for EU membership.

The Europeans don't want Turkey in their club. Because Turkey isn't a European state, nor is its culture European. And it isn't our business to press Europe to embrace a huge, truculent Muslim country suffering a creeping Islamist coup.

The Europeans were appalled by Turkey's neo-Taliban tantrum on-stage at last week's NATO summit. The Turks fought to derail the appointment of a great Dane, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, as the new NATO secretary general. Why? Because he didn't stone to death the Danish cartoonist who caricatured Mohammed.

Which brings us to the even bigger problem: Obama has no idea what's going on in Turkey. By going to Ankara on his knees, he gave his seal of approval to a pungently anti-American Islamist government bent on overturning Mustapha Kemal's legacy of the separation of mosque and state.

Turkey's ruling Justice and Development Party, the AKP, means headscarves, Korans, censorship and stacked elections. The country's alarmed middle class opposes the effort to turn the country into an Islamic state. Obama's gushing praise for the AKP's bosses left them aghast.

Obama's embrace of Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan (now orchestrating show trials of his opponents) was one step short of going to Tehran and smooching President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

What was Obama thinking? He wasn't. He relied on advice from State Department appeasement artists who understand neither Turkey, Islam nor the crises raging between the Bosporus and the Indus. State's answer is always "More love, more humility, more aid."

Well, I, for one, don't think our country has anything to apologize for, either to Turkey or to Europe.

Insisting that America's always guilty, Obama omitted any mention of Turkey's wartime betrayals of our troops, its continuing oppression of its Kurd minority or the AKP's determination to turn a state with a secular constitution into a Wahhabi playground.

When it came to the Armenian genocide, Obama bravely ducked: He never dared use the g-word.

And Obama's disdainful remarks about President Bush were just shabby.

After those overpriced tour T-shirts have shrunk in the wash (trust me -- they will), what will we have gained from Obama's superstar act?

He told the Europeans that the global economic crisis is all our fault. No mention of European greed, overleveraged governments, destructive Euro-loans or Chinese currency manipulation. We did it. Whip us, please.

In return, the Europeans gave him . . . nothing.

Even though Obama was right when he said that Europe faces a greater terror threat than we do, the entire continent only ponied up 2,500 short-term non-combat troops for Afghanistan. The Europeans know we'll do the heavy lifting.

He gave the Russians yet another blank check, too. (Meanwhile, in Moscow, Putin's thugs beat an aging pro-democracy dissident to a pulp.) In return, the Russians promised to . . . well, actually, they didn't promise anything.

Then Obama went to Turkey, undercut secular political parties, infuriated the Europeans -- and disclaimed our country's Judeo-Christian heritage. (Did Turkey's leaders respond by denying Islam's importance to them? Naw.)

In Turkey, Obama got . . . nothing we didn't already have.

Then he went to Iraq and told its prime minister that Iraq would get nothing.

I believe that our president wants to do the right thing. But he doesn't have a clue how. For now, he's enraptured by the applause. But he hasn't tried to charge his fans for their tickets. And they've already made up their minds they won't have to pay.




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  #2  
Old 04-08-2009, 04:25 PM
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I read it, and I'm certainly left of the idiot who wrote the article. Which, incidentally, was not well written.
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  #3  
Old 04-08-2009, 04:37 PM
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I'm not on the right and I agree with the general point that Muslims in Turkey have a not-all-that-well-hidden agenda to dominate the government and get rid of the secular state. However, the author shows his ignorance in writing that Turkish Muslims want to turn Turkey into a Wahabi playground. Turkish Muslims don't like Wahabi's for a number of reasons. First off they're Arab, and Ottoman Turks see them as competitors for allegiance in the Muslim work, particular in the 'stans. Secondly, they see Wahabi's as backward.
At any rate, the author has it right that Islamism is a problem for secularists in Turkey. Whether this should hinder or enhance the will of Europeans to allow Turkey into the EU is a different topic altogether.
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  #4  
Old 04-09-2009, 10:08 AM
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The author is well-versed in Wahhabism, he checks under his bed for them every night.
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  #5  
Old 04-09-2009, 12:20 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Peters
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Old 04-09-2009, 01:19 PM
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I'm thinking that since Mr. Peters has ACTUALLY BEEN IN THE REGION, he might have a better handle than most of us as to what's going on there than all of us on this thread right now...

But, that's just my thought...

BTW, thanks for the Wiki-link Kerry... Interesting read...as far as Wiki goes...
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Old 04-09-2009, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
I'm not on the right and I agree with the general point that Muslims in Turkey have a not-all-that-well-hidden agenda to dominate the government and get rid of the secular state. However, the author shows his ignorance in writing that Turkish Muslims want to turn Turkey into a Wahabi playground. Turkish Muslims don't like Wahabi's for a number of reasons. First off they're Arab, and Ottoman Turks see them as competitors for allegiance in the Muslim work, particular in the 'stans. Secondly, they see Wahabi's as backward.
At any rate, the author has it right that Islamism is a problem for secularists in Turkey. Whether this should hinder or enhance the will of Europeans to allow Turkey into the EU is a different topic altogether.
This is exactly why there will never be a world-wide Muslim "uprising" against all us Westerners.
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  #8  
Old 04-09-2009, 03:23 PM
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Muslims scare me to no end. No really they do.
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Old 04-09-2009, 03:49 PM
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[QUOTE=mgburg;2164580]I'm thinking that since Mr. Peters has ACTUALLY BEEN IN THE REGION, he might have a better handle than most of us as to what's going on there than all of us on this thread right now...

[QUOTE]

Since I was in Turkey last year, trying to get a grasp on the relationship of Turkish Muslims to the secular State, and I developed some good friendships with a number of Turkish Muslims, I'll beg to differ.
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  #10  
Old 04-09-2009, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helpplease View Post
Muslims scare me to no end. No really they do.
They should scare you to the same degree that you are scared by Christian Reconstructionists.
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Old 04-09-2009, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgburg View Post
I'm thinking that since Mr. Peters has ACTUALLY BEEN IN THE REGION, he might have a better handle than most of us as to what's going on there than all of us on this thread right now...
I wish he had used his experience in the region to have produced a fact.
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Old 04-09-2009, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helpplease View Post
Muslims scare me to no end. No really they do.
Ignorance and racism are a lot more scary than Muslims.
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Old 04-09-2009, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
They should scare you to the same degree that you are scared by Christian Reconstructionists.
X2, same for pawoSD's comment
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:15 PM
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[QUOTE=kerry;2164720][QUOTE=mgburg;2164580]I'm thinking that since Mr. Peters has ACTUALLY BEEN IN THE REGION, he might have a better handle than most of us as to what's going on there than all of us on this thread right now...

Quote:

Since I was in Turkey last year, trying to get a grasp on the relationship of Turkish Muslims to the secular State, and I developed some good friendships with a number of Turkish Muslims, I'll beg to differ.
I'll see your "differ" and raise to "what else is new?"

I don't doubt that what you saw when you where there would be different than what Peters saw...considering the fact that both of you folks couldn't possibly have been witnessing the same thing from the same vantage point at the same time.

My perception of Harlem is WAY DIFFERENT than a resident of Harlem would view it...They live it every day...I drive through it with the windows up and slithered down in the seat...

But, I'd take the view of a 70yo Harlem resident over that of a 50ish activist resident anyday...each person has his or her own reason for telling the same story...only with their favorite spice or taste of dramatics thrown in, just to keep the listeners' attention...
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  #15  
Old 04-10-2009, 01:01 PM
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If Mr. Peters can't see the difference between Wahabi Muslims and Sufi Muslims, he's not looking very closely.

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