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  #1  
Old 04-14-2009, 04:10 PM
waterboarding w/medmech
 
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Homeland Security or Gestapo?

more dangerous babble from your government...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/14/federal-agency-warns-of-radicals-on-right/

The Department of Homeland Security is warning law enforcement officials about a rise in "rightwing extremist activity," saying the economic recession, the election of America's first black president and the return of a few disgruntled war veterans could swell the ranks of white-power militias.

A footnote attached to the report by the Homeland Security Office of Intelligence and Analysis defines "rightwing extremism in the United States" as including not just racist or hate groups, but also groups that reject federal authority in favor of state or local authority.

"It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single-issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration," the warning says.

The White House has distanced itself from the analysis. When asked for comment on its contents, White House spokesman Nick Shapiro said, "The President is focused not on politics but rather taking the steps necessary to protect all Americans from the threat of violence and terrorism regardless of its origins. He also believes those who serve represent the best of this country, and he will continue to ensure that our veterans receive the respect and benefits they have earned."

The nine-page document was sent to police and sheriff's departments across the United States on April 7 under the headline, "Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment."

It says the federal government "will be working with its state and local partners over the next several months" to gather information on "rightwing extremist activity in the United States."

The joint federal-state activities will have "a particular emphasis" on the causes of "rightwing extremist radicalization."

Homeland Security spokeswoman Sara Kuban said the report is one in an ongoing series of assessments by the department to "facilitate a greater understanding of the phenomenon of violent radicalization in the U.S."

The report, which was first disclosed to the public by nationally syndicated radio host Roger Hedgecock, makes clear that the Homeland Security Department does not have "specific information that domestic rightwing terrorists are currently planning acts of violence."It warns that fringe organizations are gaining recruits, but it provides no numbers.

The report says extremist groups have used President Obama as a recruiting tool.

"Most statements by rightwing extremists have been rhetorical, expressing concerns about the election of the first African American president, but stopping short of calls for violent action," the report says. "In two instances in the run-up to the election, extremists appeared to be in the early planning stages of some threatening activity targeting the Democratic nominee, but law enforcement interceded."

When asked about this passage, Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan said, "We are concerned about anybody who will try to harm or plan to harm any one of our protectees. We don't have the luxury to focus on one particular group at the exclusion of others."

Congressional debates about immigration and gun control also make extremist groups suspicious and give them a rallying cry, the report says.

"It is unclear if either bill will be passed into law; nonetheless, a correlation may exist between the potential passage of gun control legislation and increased hoarding of ammunition, weapons stockpiling, and paramilitary training activities among rightwing extremists," the report said.

The FBI was quoted Monday as saying that, since November, more than 7 million people have applied for criminal background checks in order to buy weapons.

The Homeland Security report added: "Over the past five years, various rightwing extremists, including militias and white supremacists, have adopted the immigration issue as a call to action, rallying point, and recruiting tool."

The report could signify a change in emphasis for Homeland Security under former Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano. A German magazine quoted Ms. Napolitano as rebranding "terrorism" as "man-made disasters." Since its inception in 2003, the department has focused primarily on radicalization of Muslims and the prospect of homegrown Islamist terrorism.

Ms. Kuban said, however, that the department had published reports on left-wing radicalization as well, though she could not name one.

"These types of reports are published all the time. There have actually been some done on the other end of the spectrum, left-wing," Ms. Kuban said.

A similar headline was used in a report issued in January, Ms. Kuban said, although she could not provide the content of the headline.

Ms. Kuban said she did not know how long the new report had been in the making.

"The purpose of the report is to identify risk. This is nothing unusual," said Ms. Kuban, who added that the Homeland Security Department did this "to prevent another Tim McVeigh from ever happening again."

The Homeland Security assessment specifically says that "rightwing extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize returning veterans in order to exploit their skills and knowledge derived from military training and combat."

Jerry Newberry, director of communications for the Veterans of Foreign Wars, said the vast majority of veterans are patriotic citizens who would not join anti-government militias.

"As far as our military members go, I think that the military is a melting pot of society. So you might get a few, a fractional few, who are going to be attracted by militia groups and other right-wing extremists," he said.

"We have to remember that the people serving in our military are volunteers, they do it because they love their country, and they believe in what our country stands for," he said. "They spent their time in the military defending our Constitution, so the vast majority of them would be repulsed by the hate groups discussed in this report."

The Homeland Security report cited a 2008 FBI report that noted that a small number of returning military veterans from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have joined extremist groups.

The FBI report said that from October 2001 through May 2008 "a minuscule" number of veterans, 203 out of 23,000, had joined groups such as the Ku Klux Klan, Aryan Nations, the National Socialist Movement, the Creativity Movement, the National Alliance and some skinhead groups.

"Although the white supremacist movement is of concern to the FBI, our assessment shows that only a very small number of people with prior military experience may have an affiliation with supremacist groups," FBI spokesman Richard Kolko said Monday when asked about the FBI report.

A 2006 report from the Southern Poverty Law Center, an organization that monitors white supremacists like the Klan, said that white-power groups had an interest in the kind of training the military provides.

Mark Potok, director of the center's intelligence project, said the Homeland Security report "confirms that white supremacists are interested in the military. There is some concern, and there should be, about returning veterans, one need only think of the example of Timothy McVeigh, who was in the first Iraq war."

Mr. Potok added that he was generally pleased with the report.

"Basically, the report tracks fairly closely with what we have been saying for some time now. They mention us a couple of times, though not by name," he said.

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  #2  
Old 04-14-2009, 04:18 PM
Inna-propriate-da-vida
 
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That explains why Homeland Security was asking me about a few Peachparts members....
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  #3  
Old 04-14-2009, 04:19 PM
waterboarding w/medmech
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmbdiesel View Post
That explains why Homeland Security was asking me about a few Peachparts members....
now that is funny....BTW here is a link to the report for any who care to peruse it.

http://www.rogerhedgecock.com/resources/HSA%20-%20Rightwing%20Extremism%20-%20Climate%20Fueling%20Radicalization%20and%20Recruitment,dated%207%20April%202009.pdf
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  #4  
Old 04-14-2009, 04:25 PM
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Another boogy man story, they never mentioned Obama when I swore in to the Michigan Militia!

Thats a joke.
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  #5  
Old 04-14-2009, 04:29 PM
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I guess I missed the point. Where is the objectionable part?

We need to be careful that gun control legislation is not based on fear tactics, but otherwise this all sounds pretty sensible. For example, this part of the article rings true to me:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
..."The purpose of the report is to identify risk. This is nothing unusual," said Ms. Kuban, who added that the Homeland Security Department did this "to prevent another Tim McVeigh from ever happening again."...
We should keep a careful eye out on this sort of statement from the government, but I certainly will not waste my time reading Hedgecock's website. Not a reliable source, IMHO.

EDIT: I stand corrected. After saying I would not consult Hedgecock's website, I took a look and he has linked to the original government report. He is still a knucklehead, but apparently he can be a reliable source from time to time.
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  #6  
Old 04-14-2009, 04:33 PM
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Anyone who wants to can go over to Glen Beck's blog, there are all kinds of crazies threatening violence. There are many on the far right who simply do not wish to honor the results of a US legal election. Anywhere you go on the right wing sites there is all kinds of either outright or easily interpetted insinuations of armed action or rebellion, secession and all kinds of other talk in which the losers of the last election seem to want to have some sort of armed response to their getting the short end of the democracy stick. To them I offer this advice: you lost, get over it.

Sooner or later, one of these nuts or a group of these nuts are going to kill somebody, or perhaps do what they did the last time they went crazy in the 90s and blow up a federal building full of kids or trap themselves and have a nice human barbecue with their own families as the main course. It is an obvious threat to national security at this point, I have even seen some of the same talk here on this forum. My question to them is simple: which one of you are going to be the first to shoot a police officer when your "rebellion" starts?

The sad truth is this: Glenn Beck, Drudge, the lesser talk show hosts like Savage, and now Fox News are destablizing the United States with violent right wing rhetoric. They have this big loud megaphone that makes them think they are bigger than they are. If it leads them to armed action, they will be killed as dead as David Koresh or imprisoned as thouroughly as Charles Mason, as long as this country is having free elections. Most people like that idea over having their kids killed in the cross fire of nut case right wingers or left wingers, and in the end the forces of law and order will win out, we may be having big problems, but we ain't so far gone that that is going to change.

What I don't get is the total lack of logic on the right. They lost the last election, because they lost the moderates and the independents in the middle. If they start shooting people, the next election will look even worse for them than the last as the lose the rest of them. Hard core righties comprise no more than 22% of the electorate. If they think 22% can rule the other 88% at gun point, they are in for a very rude awakening.

Last edited by JollyRoger; 04-14-2009 at 04:41 PM.
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  #7  
Old 04-14-2009, 04:42 PM
Inna-propriate-da-vida
 
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nice segue from "Are the right wing talking heads fomenting violence"
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On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

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  #8  
Old 04-14-2009, 04:46 PM
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I think that Beck and Fox News are essentially attempting to organize a large right wing militia. They are playing with dynamite, and they are doing it because the very, very, very rich, the people who control Fox and Beck and Co, want things that way because they have simply run out of options versus Obama and he scares the $hit out of the greedy SOB's. This is a mob being moved to action by right wing propaganda, and we need only look at the history books to see how that plays out. But in the end, there is no way these people are going to succeed in attempting to overrule a majority decision made by the voters of the United States. There are still men of principle left in this country.
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Old 04-14-2009, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Roger
Sooner or later, one of these nuts are going to kill somebody, or perhaps do what they did the last time they went crazy in the 90s and blow up a federal building full of kids or trap themselves and have a nice human barbecue. It is an obvious threat to national security at this point, I have even seen some of the same talk here on this forum.
I don't believe you, and I don't think the forum would tolerate such talk if it did occur.
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Old 04-14-2009, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyRoger View Post
I think that Beck and Fox News are essentially attempting to organize a large right wing militia...
I don't think they really care about that. I think they are out to make money. I can't read their minds, and wouldn't want to, but I think you are giving them too much credit. If their message made sense, then I would think you might be right. They are in it for the money, IMHO. That it seems to be working is a sad commentary on their audience (which includes me from time to time).
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Old 04-14-2009, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dculkin View Post
I don't think they really care about that. I think they are out to make money. I can't read their minds, and wouldn't want to, but I think you are giving them too much credit. If their message made sense, then I would think you might be right. They are in it for the money, IMHO. That it seems to be working is a sad commentary on their audience (which includes me from time to time).
Gotta agree with that assessment. It's showbiz plain and simple. They'll spoon feed whatever drivel people will suck up. They would be hard core liberal-leftist pinkos if they thought there was more money in it.
But JR has a point, they are playing with fire, and it's not too far fetched to suggest that somebody's going to get burned.
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On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3nnss8PAj5aU/giphy.gif
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  #12  
Old 04-14-2009, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitz View Post
I don't believe you, and I don't think the forum would tolerate such talk if it did occur.
Tolerate? It's the biggest zoo on the Internet, feel free to visit it, it is at Glennbeck.com. You should feel right at home there.
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Old 04-14-2009, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
A footnote attached to the report by the Homeland Security Office of Intelligence and Analysis defines "rightwing extremism in the United States" as including not just racist or hate groups, but also groups that reject federal authority in favor of state or local authority.
So, if I think it should be the job of the State Government to determine the legal drinking age (It is the technically the State that determines the age, but the feds will pull funding for the highways if its not 21) I'm a terrorist?

What if I believe that the Boy Scouts do more good then the Americorps? am I a terrorist?

I'm glad that there are now laws to dictate how I'm allowed to believe.

BTW for the Record if anyone is listening, I love the Federal Government and would love it if they totally controlled my life!
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Old 04-14-2009, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by cmbdiesel View Post
Gotta agree with that assessment. It's showbiz plain and simple. They'll spoon feed whatever drivel people will suck up. They would be hard core liberal-leftist pinkos if they thought there was more money in it.
But JR has a point, they are playing with fire, and it's not too far fetched to suggest that somebody's going to get burned.
Here, I pulled one of the last posts from Beck's blog, let's take a look at what "Billy" has to say:
Quote:
Billy Says:
April 14th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Tea Parties tomorrow.
As much as we disagree with each other in this forum, I think we can all agree that this government does not represent our best interests. Not just the current government but the recent past as well.
I hope this is our last warning shot (probably not) and either the politicians listen or we [remove] them.
In any event, donít miss it. The country is mad and itís time we do something about it.
See you at the Party!!
Billy is firing his last warning shot, and then of course, it is "removal time".
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Old 04-14-2009, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirNik84 View Post
So, if I think it should be the job of the State Government to determine the legal drinking age (It is the technically the State that determines the age, but the feds will pull funding for the highways if its not 21) I'm a terrorist?

What if I believe that the Boy Scouts do more good then the Americorps? am I a terrorist?

I'm glad that there are now laws to dictate how I'm allowed to believe.

BTW for the Record if anyone is listening, I love the Federal Government and would love it if they totally controlled my life!
I think the key difference is if you decide to start shooting people over it.

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