http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_gm_dealers

Looks GM is in it thick

__________________
1986 300SDL, 211K,Dealership serviced its whole life
1991 190E 2.6(120k)
1983 300D(300k)
1977 300D(211k)

GM sucks anyways. Let them fail.

__________________
1984 300SD Orient Red/ Palomino
1989 560SEC
2016 Mazda 6 6 speed manual
1995 Ford F-150 reg cab 4.9 5speed manual

.....and alot more people lose their jobs? Sad.

whats worse? A lot of people losing jobs or an inept gov. pumping billions more into an inept car company just to fail later?

__________________
1984 300SD Orient Red/ Palomino
1989 560SEC
2016 Mazda 6 6 speed manual
1995 Ford F-150 reg cab 4.9 5speed manual

It would be sad to see that many more people out of work. What's just as sad is that there are people rooting against their success and that of the entire US auto industry. They seem to take a perverse pleasure in the idea. Sad.

__________________
1993 300E 2.8 185k miles
2006 Mustang Convertible 4.0 Eaton Supercharged

there's going to be a ton of workers and retirees without paychecks/pension checks and health insurance. somehow, i think middle and upper management will still come out smelling like a rose, golden parachutes in hand.

__________________
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

Well, they've been going like that for years, and don't have a contingency plan. Has it always worked like that? On credit?
I hardly want to see them fail, yet as E150GT mentions, what's the point, we'll all spend enough in taxes to put a down payment on a car, but we don't get the credit.

__________________
83 SD

84 CD

Have you seen this thing? This sexy macho bloated Hot Wheels fantasia dreamgasm of a car-like drunken child's funbot crayon sketch?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No? Because it appears to be a vehicle that at least some across the Big Autosphere are still secretly praying, despite the sudden overthrow of -- despite the deadly ultimatum for -- General Motors, might yet prove to be a savior.

Indeed, it's a car some hope will maybe, just maybe sell like crazy and restore a tiny bit of faith in big, thick, meaty, rather inane American cars that have no real place in the new millennium, but which for some reason they keep building anyway, presumably because aging frat boys you should never, ever date think they're totally wickedcool and will therefore be willing to shell out 35 grand to own, unless they won't.

Am I talking about the ugly-as-a-giant-vacuum-cleaner Chevy Volt? Am I aiming this admittedly overheated verbiage at the ruddy, useless Impala? No, I am not.

I am talking about the brand new, leering, pseudo-masculine 2010 Chevrolet Camaro.

full article:


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2009/04/01/notes040109.DTL

__________________
1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

Anxiety about GM, Chrysler bankruptcies grips retirees
Limits to pension insurance troubling
BY TIM HIGGINS • FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER • April 16, 2009

As the specter of bankruptcy looms large over General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC, retirees from the two automakers, especially those younger than 65, fear the rules of their retirement might be abruptly changed, cutting their standard of living and security, after years of promises.

More than 928,000 people are covered under GM and Chrysler pension plans.

"Most of us, obviously, worked for a number of years with the understanding that we would retire with a certain benefit level and had planned our lives around that," said Karen DeOrnellas, a retired GM salaried worker who lives in Alma, Kan., and has joined a newly formed GM Retirees Association. "If that were to change, we would be significantly impacted and it would affect the quality of our lives for the rest of our lives."

If the automakers file for bankruptcy, and if they terminate their pension programs, retirees would get monthly payments under the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp.'s insurance, but tens of thousands likely would see benefit reductions.

A bankruptcy does not always mean pension programs are terminated, and it's impossible to know how a GM filing would turn out. Northwest Airlines' plan, for example, remained intact as the company reorganized, but United Airlines' pension was taken over by the government.

If GM did terminate its retirement fund in bankruptcy, GM would be, by far, the largest company to do so, with around 650,000 people covered under its plan

"Companies don't just have the option of saying, 'Here, take it.' They're going to have to prove that it is impossible for them to continue in business or reorganize ... and maintain the plans as they have in the past," PBGC acting director Vincent Snowbarger said in an interview. He also said that if the PBGC does take over the automakers' pensions, people who retired before age 65 likely face benefit reductions.

The companies have not said what would happen to the pension programs in a bankruptcy.

However, experts familiar with such proceedings say the retirees have reason for concern.


"If these were handled as conventional bankruptcies, both pension and retiree health benefit plans would be terminated, and the pension put to the" Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp., said Olivia Mitchell, a Wharton School business professor and executive director of the Pension Research Council.


The PBGC, which protects U.S. workers' pensions, typically cuts benefits when it takes over a fund. The agency estimates that GM's U.S. pension obligations are underfunded by $20 billion -- $8 billion more than GM calculates -- and that Chrysler's pensions are underfunded by $9 billion.

John Christie is president of the GM Retirees Association, which started a few weeks ago out of growing concern about the automaker's future.

Christie retired from GM in 2005 at age 56 and is worried about how much of his pension benefit could be wiped out if the company terminates the program.

"I think a lot of folks don't understand the implications of PBGC," he said, "and if they did they would be a whole lot more concerned."

"Pension protection is our No. 1 concern," added Chuck Austin, president of the National Chrysler Retirement Organization.

The level of possible benefit reductions to retirees is unclear.

Using figures released by the PBGC and GM, Frank Todisco, the American Academy of Actuaries' senior pension fellow, roughly estimated that GM retirees could see on average a benefit reduction of 10% to 20%.

"When you start to drill down to the level of the individual, some individuals will have no loss at all, and other individuals will have a loss greater than that number," he said.

The PBGC pays the benefits promised under a terminated plan up to certain limits set by Congress -- $54,000 a year for a single retiree age 65, but much less for people who retired at a younger age.

Contact TIM HIGGINS 313-222-8784 or thiggins@freepress.com

never cared for their product much but cant help to think of all the people who are gonna lose their jobs, pensions etc

__________________
1986 300SDL, 211K,Dealership serviced its whole life
1991 190E 2.6(120k)
1983 300D(300k)
1977 300D(211k)

The driving world would be a rather vanilla place if it was filled exclusively with Miata convertibles.

I can't belive that they are actually trying to save Hummer. It was a fad that has long since died.


The numbers really are staggering though....I doubt there are even 1,700 Mercedes-Benz Dealers in all of North America

__________________
1982 300GD Carmine Red (DB3535) Cabriolet Parting Out
1990 300SEL Smoke Silver (Parting out)
1991 350SDL Blackberry Metallic (481)

"The thing is Bob, its not that I'm lazy...its that I just don't care."

Why? Are people going to stop buying cars simply because GM fails? If they fail, somebody will pick up the slack and the other survivors will need to employ people for that.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

And they have had it good for so many years so if they socked something away and made something of themselves where they can go somewhere, good for them. If not, they should have planned better when times were good.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Cheap & ugly is as cheap & ugly does. Despite a few decent cars (only decent, not superior), they don't have enough time left to repair the tarnished reputation. There's a lesson here for all of us: don't get fat and lazy.

__________________
1985 380SE Blue/Blue - 230,000 miles
2012 Subaru Forester 5-speed
2005 Toyota Sienna
2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible
1999 Toyota Tacoma