Why should they be subsidised for building absolute junk all these years. My dad had a 2004 dodge 2500 that with 60k has had the climate contro fail, the front end and the a/c system. Now knowing this, would I go and spend money to buy a new 300c or whatever they call their sedan these days or would I go buy a old S Class Mercedes, 5/7 series BMW or RWD Volvo, spend less and not have a repair bill. The latter is a win win situation. My uncle has the same truck as my dad. He has had the injectors fail on his, and he has also had issues with the climate control.

Before that my dad owned a 1999 Chevy Silverado and the transfer case went out at 75k. It's hard to say, maybe my family has been unlucky with their Dodges and GM products. But when you see our cars going for 300,000 easily with out much more then just maintance, we can concure that the big three has a long way to go.

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I have to say I'm proud of Ford. they refused the bailout money, and are likely to be the only US auto company when this whole thing is over. Yes new American cars are junky, but being an American I know we have it in us to build the best cars in the world. The auto makers should look at this as a challenge, and get back to work making the cars we all know they are capable of making. I think Ford is the only one who will be able to do this. they are the only American auto company left that doesn't have the government hanging over their shoulder watching their every move and causing them to build cars that do not meet the demands of the market.

Case and Point



WAIST OF MONEY, MY TAX MONEY

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I'm alittle sad because for years I drove those gargantuan Cadillac Broughams and it represents and era loved and gone dur to a generation of greed. As for the bailouts, their loans and have to be repaid, albeit at the taxpayers expense.

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"It's normal for these things to empty your wallet and break your heart in the process."
2012 SLK 350
1987 420 SEL

So what? If they go belly up and close, where does your money go?

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Lee Iacocca.

I googled him and he is still alive!!!!

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Nobody can argue the decline over the last 30+ years, mostly due to lazy management taking the path of least resistance to quarterly profits. Despite all the misgivings, I think the fed realizes that it may someday need access to US transportation technology for a variety of reasons, and that Japan or Korea might not be the best source.

So for now the auto execs have been shaken out of their comfy Learjets and the unions stripped of most of their royalty status. It took a major upheaval to get there, and now there are no more excuses. There better be some stellar products coming out of Detroit!

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1985 380SE Blue/Blue - 230,000 miles
2012 Subaru Forester 5-speed
2005 Toyota Sienna
2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible
1999 Toyota Tacoma

And if not? What are you going to do? Line everybody up and pay Mistress to beat them? Short of firing everybody from the janitor to the highest manager left employed, how will you change the corporate culture?

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

You should not be offering that kind of temptation at this time.

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1985 380SE Blue/Blue - 230,000 miles
2012 Subaru Forester 5-speed
2005 Toyota Sienna
2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible
1999 Toyota Tacoma

Yeah. Although add terrible to lazy.

I think they both (labor &mgmt) still have to fall some more.
I can't believe how terrible that GM commercial about turning your hat inside out is. Seriously? Your F'in life is on the line, and you come up with turn your hat inside out? It's so laughably terrible that people's money depends on these knuckleheads.

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1984 300TD

Oh good, anecdotal evidence (look it up!). I owned a w210 wagon that had $6000 in crap (incl AC) go out the first six months I owned it. I bought it in perfect condition with 60k miles on it. I also own a GMC pickup with 60k miles on it, on which I haven't spent any money yet.

So, that means I should buy GMCs and not Mercedes? The reality is, Dodge/Chrysler builds crappy products - I sell auto parts for a living, so I know. You just learned this. So, you don't do your homework, you buy a Dodge (the worst of the big three), it fails on you, and now all American cars are junk. Logical?

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- Brian


1989 500SEL Euro
1966 250SE Cabriolet
1958 BMW Isetta 600

I road in a coworkers GM product (can't remember model) last week to some training out of town, and really liked it, had nice leather seats, nice ride, and fairly decent fit and finish (one small flaw near sunroof). If GM pulls through I might consider one sometime down the road. Although I will be buying my brothers 1993 Subaru Legacy Wagon here soon, so it will be sometime down the road.

My mom had a Chrysler LHS with 300,000 miles on it, and sold it a few months ago when the transmission went out, and still got $1000 for it. It held up fairly well, but did have it's issues. So some Chrysler products do hold up somewhat.

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1999 Toyota Corolla VE (Mine)
2006 Honda Odyssey (Wife's)
1979 300CD (sold)

Part of the problem:

30 years ago, GM was a car company that occasionally loaned money to a customer to buy one of their cars. They morphed into a bank that made cars. (paraphrased from a story I heard on the radio yesterday)

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Behind every great man is a great woman. Behind every great woman is a great behind.

There are.

Ford is making some good stuff. Love it or hate it (it's definitely polarizing!) I cannot find a bad review of the Flex. Have not driven this car so I can't comment first hand.

The forthcoming Taurus looks very nice, and the coming SHO looks like a worldbeater (although not cheap.) Obviously have not driven this car yet.

The Pontiac G8 is a fine car and a really fun sports sedan. I have driven this car and it is well-built and holy fast!

I would likely buy a Chevy Malibu over an Accord or Camry. Have driven a Malibu both new from dealer and in rental-car guise and even the hard-driven rental car drove very nicely.