The Absolute Ultimate In BS - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #16 05-09-2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

Exactly. Children are not given the same rights as adults, so there was no choice for this child...and there shouldn't be either. Children should listen to their parents and school administrators or suffer the consequences, period.

In this case he was warned about what would happen and he still went thru with it so I don't care.

GregoryV022 · #17 05-09-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUVMBDiesels

Haven't these people seen "Footloose"? I guess not

dude, i was hella in that play

what the original poster i think, was trying to convey, and i apolgize in advance if offend anyone because of their religion.

what the hell is up with a school that forbid those thing, it is now possibly the only school i know that does that. and its total bull. these things are not wrong in anyway.

and i don't think i have to convince many people of this.

kerry · #18 05-09-2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

Exactly. Children are not given the same rights as adults, so there was no choice for this child...and there shouldn't be either. Children should listen to their parents and school administrators or suffer the consequences, period.

Family and educational fascism.

kerry · #19 05-09-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregoryV022

it is now possibly the only school i know that does that. and its total bull. these things are not wrong in anyway.
.

Many fundamentalist protestant christian schools ban those things. See the film 'Jesus Camp' for an authentic window into that form of child raising.

aklim · #20 05-09-2009, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregoryV022

what the hell is up with a school that forbid those thing, it is now possibly the only school i know that does that. and its total bull. these things are not wrong in anyway.

They are what they are. Sure, you and I may think they are crazy and we would never set foot in that school, much less take classes there. However, that is the way they feel about things and we have no right to say they cannot do it. IF the student's parents feel they want to subject their kids to that, so be it.

jplinville · #21 05-09-2009, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Family and educational fascism.

I'm sorry...perhaps you'd rather have the government raise your child? I'll raise mine by myself, thank you!

strelnik · #22 05-09-2009, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Crazy religous people.

They should get a picture of him half naked with the girl, smoking a joint and drinking a beer, with lesbian devil warshipers in the background.

Send that to the school principle.

That is spelled p-r-i-n-c-i-p-a-l.

We may send you there if your spelling doesn't improve.

But all in all:

1. If the kid had no choice, he is stuck in the middle
2. If he didn't sign but the parents did on his behalf as a minor, he's stuck in the middle. Leave when you can afford to.
3. Since we don't know what the fine print is, everything anyone says, including me, is speculation.

We can argue forever, because we don't have the facts. Plain and simple.
No data, no truth. Half data, half-truths.

tonkovich · #23 05-09-2009, 08:23 PM

having grown up with religious fanatics as parents, i feel for the kid.

(it takes a long time to get over that kind of indoctrination)

kerry · #24 05-09-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

I'm sorry...perhaps you'd rather have the government raise your child? I'll raise mine by myself, thank you!

Didn't say anything about the government. I was referring to your comment:

"Children are not given the same rights as adults, so there was no choice for this child...and there shouldn't be either. Children should listen to their parents and school administrators or suffer the consequences, period."

This kid was going to a prom so had to be in high school. Kids of that age are capable of thinking and deciding for themselves. Asserting that they should obey authority and not make decisions for themselves is the kernel of fascism. They should have a say in how their schools are run and should be in dialogue with their parents, not 'listening to their parents, period"

aklim · #25 05-09-2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Kids of that age are capable of thinking and deciding for themselves. Asserting that they should obey authority and not make decisions for themselves is the kernel of fascism. They should have a say in how their schools are run and should be in dialogue with their parents, not 'listening to their parents, period"

By what definition? How much say the parents GIVE to them is up to the parent. After all, if the kid screws up, isn't the parent responsible?

jplinville · #26 05-09-2009, 10:19 PM

As long as I'm responsible for my children's actions, they WILL listen to me and do as they are told.

Here's an example for you to mull over...say your child, a 16 year old, wrecked into someone else's car. Who's responsible? By law, it's your job to pay for the damages, not the child's. That makes you responsible for your child's actions.

cmbdiesel · #27 05-09-2009, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

As long as I'm responsible for my children's actions, they WILL listen to me and do as they are told.

Your job as a parent is to prepare your kids to be competent, able adults, who have the ability to think and act on their own. At 17, it's time for that young man to start taking a stand when he feels he needs to. I applaud him for doing what he thinks is right.

As for signing the form, as a minor, his signature is not legally binding.

Seems like the same folks who were so proud of the pinhead who sued his teacher over creationism are the ones with no sympathy for this kid. Maybe those two should just switch places, both would be happier.

aklim · #28 05-10-2009, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

Your job as a parent is to prepare your kids to be competent, able adults, who have the ability to think and act on their own. At 17, it's time for that young man to start taking a stand when he feels he needs to. I applaud him for doing what he thinks is right.

As for signing the form, as a minor, his signature is not legally binding.

Seems like the same folks who were so proud of the pinhead who sued his teacher over creationism are the ones with no sympathy for this kid. Maybe those two should just switch places, both would be happier.

Then it is also time for that young man to learn there are consequences to that action. Something this event teaches him.

"For the parents to claim any injustice regarding this issue is at best forgetful and at worst disingenuous," he said. "It is our hope that the student and his parents will abide by the policies they have already agreed to."

Dunno. I wasn't proud of that pinhead and I certainly have no sympathy for the kid. So it DOESN'T seem like it is all the same folks, does it?

kerry · #29 05-10-2009, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

As long as I'm responsible for my children's actions, they WILL listen to me and do as they are told.

If that method works, and from my observations, it most typically doesn't because the child rebels against it, the only skill the 18 yr old will have is the ability to obey. Such a narrow skill is useful in the lower ranks of the military, in menial jobs, and functioning in a fascist society. It's not very broad and it counterproductive to democracy.
I think we should teach high school students to use their own judgment, not just to obey. They should think critically about the long term consequences of their actions on themselves and others, and make decisions based on what they judge to be good so that at 18 when they become legally responsible for their actions, they have the wherewithal to actually carry out that responsibility.

It's not that it's not possible to live with children simply following their father's authority. I think we did it for thousands of years under feudalism. Children followed their parent's rules to the extent of adopting the exact same occupation. These children became the adults who followed the complex social class rules of feudal systems. But such a system is not free. The individual is a slave to the group.
It was the genuis of 17th and 18th century Europe to realize that we don't have to live this way. We can actually be free and create democratic systems which are controlled by the individual rather than vice versa. To maintain those systems we have to have child raising practices which divert kids from the feudal option in their teenage years.

Someone who obeys, always has the legitimate excuse, 'I was following orders.' That's not responsibility.

Kuan · #30 05-10-2009, 10:14 AM

Getting expelled wouldn't be the worst thing.