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  #16  
Old 05-19-2009, 07:02 PM
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hey, he's a minor thus the state has interest. period.

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  #17  
Old 05-19-2009, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
Well, yes and no. If the alternative treatment fails and now there is a bigger bill to pay to fix it, who pays for that? As they say, "A stitch in time saves 9". So, if you refuse the 1 stitch today and tomorrow 9 are needed, who pays for the 9? If the govt pays, the govt should have some rights. OTOH, if the person does a total AMA then let them do what they want.
Are the parents not paying for the treatment? I'm sure the govt isn't paying for some alternative treatment. It seems that the govt wants to pay for the boy's chemo. If that's the case, then saving taxpayer money isn't what it's about, is it. I still wonder how they're going to force the boy to have chemo if he's uncooperative. I guess they'll have to knock him out first.
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  #18  
Old 05-19-2009, 09:09 PM
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The fact that the kid cannot read, reinforces my view that he is no position to judge whether a chemotherapist or whack-job vitamin doctor is the best alternative. If the state can remove kids from homes for physical abuse, it should be able to remove a kid from a home when parents use capital punishment. If the state can coerce a woman to keep a fetus inside her for the health of a potential citizen, it's no reach to protect the kid from a nutty mother when he's actually a citizen.
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  #19  
Old 05-19-2009, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
The fact that the kid cannot read, reinforces my view that he is no position to judge whether a chemotherapist or whack-job vitamin doctor is the best alternative. If the state can remove kids from homes for physical abuse, it should be able to remove a kid from a home when parents use capital punishment. If the state can coerce a woman to keep a fetus inside her for the health of a potential citizen, it's no reach to protect the kid from a nutty mother when he's actually a citizen.
you are correct.

however (oddly enough) the anti abortion crowd probably is also the "parents rights" crowd, inconsistently enough.
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  #20  
Old 05-20-2009, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by DieselAddict View Post
Are the parents not paying for the treatment? I'm sure the govt isn't paying for some alternative treatment. It seems that the govt wants to pay for the boy's chemo. If that's the case, then saving taxpayer money isn't what it's about, is it. I still wonder how they're going to force the boy to have chemo if he's uncooperative. I guess they'll have to knock him out first.
The question is this. IF they refuse chemo now and try their own "treatment" and the boy gets worse and they now decide to undergo conventional treatment, what if what is available at that time is more expensive than if they had undergone chemo at this time?

Think about it in this sense. If at this time, I refuse to take the simple step of treating a small wound on my leg and later on, I decide to go to the doctor and he says the leg has to be amputate and it costs more to treat it later than now, who pays?
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  #21  
Old 05-20-2009, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
The question is this. IF they refuse chemo now and try their own "treatment" and the boy gets worse and they now decide to undergo conventional treatment, what if what is available at that time is more expensive than if they had undergone chemo at this time?

Think about it in this sense. If at this time, I refuse to take the simple step of treating a small wound on my leg and later on, I decide to go to the doctor and he says the leg has to be amputate and it costs more to treat it later than now, who pays?
just as an aside, you seem to be really obsessed with the cost of things.

i.e. money.

just an observation.
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  #22  
Old 05-20-2009, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by tonkovich View Post
just as an aside, you seem to be really obsessed with the cost of things.

i.e. money.

just an observation.
I live in a world where resources are not free for the picking.
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  #23  
Old 05-20-2009, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
According to the article, the 13-year-old can't read. Either he's a retard and his death would be no great loss...
Just wow. Great sentiment.

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my brother is retarded, but I can assure you that his death would be a loss to our family. you might feel the same if it was your family member. OTOH, nobody's life is so important that it is irreplaceable
My 6.5yoS has Down syndrome, it would be a tremendous loss to us and our town. There are far bigger resource "wasters" in our society.
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  #24  
Old 05-20-2009, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by SwampYankee View Post
Just wow. Great sentiment.
And none of the resident bleeding hearts came to the kid's defense either.

I think many people share Skippy's attitude towards the mentally handicapped. Add to that the power of the government to inject a child with toxic chemicals against the parents wishes, a future of economic uncertainty and national bankruptcy, and there is cause for concern for those who end up in the "care" of the state.
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  #25  
Old 05-20-2009, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
According to the article, the 13-year-old can't read. Either he's a retard and his death would be no great loss, or there is a pattern of child abuse and neglect that needs to be aggressively prosecuted.
Wow dude, reign it in. That kind of comment displays a complete lack of intelligence or compassion. How would you feel if you had a child with learning disabilities and someone started spouting such hateful nonsense?
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  #26  
Old 05-20-2009, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Fitz View Post
And none of the resident bleeding hearts came to the kid's defense either.

I think many people share Skippy's attitude towards the mentally handicapped. Add to that the power of the government to inject a child with toxic chemicals against the parents wishes, a future of economic uncertainty and national bankruptcy, and there is cause for concern for those who end up in the "care" of the state.
Reaching new lows here on OD.....Now were bashing developmentally disadvantaged children....

Personally, I think that those with no compassion for the mentally handicapped are themselves more defective than the ones they disparage. I would take the attributes of love, joy, compassion, loyalty, etc, that are demonstrated by handicapped people over the analytical dollar and cents views spewed forth from the bigots.
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  #27  
Old 05-20-2009, 10:11 AM
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As offensively as Skippy put it, what he said is true. "Developmentally disadvantaged"/"mentally handicapped"/"learning disabilities"/"slow"/"retarded", no matter what you call them, it all means the same thing.

Which is more productive, caring for a "disabled" person that will never be more than a chair/bed warmer from infancy to geriatricy or starting over right away and producing a child healthy from birth?
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  #28  
Old 05-20-2009, 10:18 AM
Inna-propriate-da-vida
 
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Guess that depends on what your priorities are. If you are willing to sacrifice your humanity for a 'perfect' child.....

Just remember this, Albert Einstein was thought to be retarded up through age 10.....guess we should have offed him when we had the chance.....
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  #29  
Old 05-20-2009, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
like I said all about $$$. either a strong argument for nationalized healthcare or patient's rights (maybe both). no one should be ruined finacially be having to take a procedure that may or may not help them...it certainly is not the government's place to decide that.
It is not like this is a 50/50 thing. Kids with this disease have a 95% death rate if they don't do the chemo. If they do the chemo they have a 90% survival rate. Not 100%, but it is not 100% that I will make it home tonight and not get in a car accident on the way.

The kid is a minor. The parents are not making good decisions. Seems simple enough to me.
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Last edited by Graplr; 05-20-2009 at 10:43 AM.
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  #30  
Old 05-20-2009, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by cmbdiesel View Post
If you are willing to sacrifice your humanity for a 'perfect' child.....
"Humanity" used to be like the rest of nature, survival of the fittest. Medical technology has allowed us to fulfill the instinct to "live" and "protect the family" at all costs, even if the cost hurts themselves and others.

Quote:
Just remember this, Albert Einstein was thought to be retarded up through age 10.....guess we should have offed him when we had the chance.
If he had stayed in Germany and the Nazis had their way, no doubt they would have. Einstein had minor problems with speech and reading, he was still brilliant from a very young age.

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