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Old 06-10-2009, 05:17 PM
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Israel to sanction US?

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1244371046569&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

In a sign of growing concern in Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's government over US President Barack Obama's Middle East policies, Minister-without-Portfolio Yossi Peled proposed Israeli sanctions on the US in a letter to cabinet ministers on Sunday.

In the 11-page letter, obtained by The Jerusalem Post from a minister on Monday, Peled recommends steps Israel can take to compensate for the shift in American policy, which he believes has become hostile to Israel.

"Obama's ascendance represents a turning point in America's approach to the region, especially to Israel," he wrote in the letter.

"The new administration believes that in order to fight terror, guarantee stability and withdraw from Iraq, a new diplomatic slant is needed involving drastic steps to pacify the Muslim world and the adoption of a more balanced approach to Israel, including intensive pressure to stop building in settlements, remove outposts and advance the formation of a Palestinian state."

Peled added that faced with an American government with an activist agenda that does not mesh with Israel's, traditional reactions are no longer relevant. He said he expected that Obama would eventually realize that appeasement and dialogue with countries that support terror would not have positive results.

But in the interim, the minister suggests reconsidering military and civilian purchases from the US, selling sensitive equipment that the Washington opposes distributing internationally, and allowing other countries that compete with the US to get involved with the peace process and be given a foothold for their military forces and intelligence agencies.

Peled said that shifting military acquisition to America's competition would make Israel less dependent on the US. For instance, he suggested buying planes from the France-based Airbus firm instead of the American Boeing.

In what may be his most controversial suggestion, Peled recommends intervening in American congressional races to weaken Obama and asking American Jewish donors not to contribute to Democratic congressional candidates. He predicted that this would result in Democratic candidates pressuring Obama to become more pro-Israel.

Peled called for the formation of a new body intended to influence American public opinion. The groups he suggests courting include Hispanic Americans and Labor unions in industries that benefit from Israeli military acquisitions.

A former OC Northern Command, Peled is considered part of the left flank of the Likud that includes ministers Dan Meridor and Michael Eitan. Unlike Environment Minister Gilad Erdan, he does not have a history of openly criticizing American policies and unlike Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz, he does not have personal ties to the Republican Party.

Peled told the Post on Monday that he still hoped common ground could be found with the Obama administration, but just in case that did not happen, Israel must be ready.

"We must make every effort to maintain our relationship with the US and I respect Obama, but Israel has its own interests and we have to know what our alternatives are," Peled said. "I don't think what I suggest is vengeful. I just think that even a superpower must behave like a partner."

Peled personally gave the letter to Netanyahu at Sunday's cabinet meeting and urged him to take it seriously. But a source close to the prime minister reacted to it with scorn and stressed that none of Peled's suggestions would be implemented.

"The government's goal is to cooperate with the US," an official in the Prime Minister's Office said. "Jerusalem and Washington have a special relationship and we expect that relationship to continue to be strong, intimate and cooperative."

Shoshana Bryen, the senior director for security policy at the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs in Washington, said she could understand Peled's perspective but worried about its consequences.

"If what he's doing is expressing the frustration that after being a good friend and ally, as Israel has been, he feels like Israel is being stepped on, then he's right," she said, adding that it was appropriate to make America aware of those feelings.

But she warned that such expressions could "take on a life of their own," and that some of Peled's policy prescriptions could be less than helpful for the Jewish state.

For instance, while Bryen said it made sense for Israel to diversify its military sales partners in any case, relationships with European and Russian companies and countries were likely to be subject to some of the same issues.

In addition, she noted, America might not be pleased.
"If you take on a big country when you're a small country, you have to be very, very cognizant of the ways a big country can respond," she said.
The State Department did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Peled's letter.

But Democratic political activists in Washington dismissed out of hand Peled's suggestions, saying that such an approach would have little chance of influencing Congress's posture on Israel.

"It shows Yossi Peled is terribly uninformed about US politics," said National Jewish Democratic Council Executive Director Ira Forman. "He doesn't understand the politics of the American Jewish community. He doesn't understand the politics of the Democratic party."

Forman argued that Republicans had long tried to use the issue of Israel to peel Jews away from the Democratic Party with limited success, as the constituency continued to vote overwhelmingly Democrat.

He predicted that such efforts, if attempted, would neither shift congressional support away from Obama nor boomerang to hurt Israel's backing on Capitol Hill.

"Any such efforts would be so quixotic, would be so insignificant, would be so non-workable that I don't think it would have an impact either way," he said.

But other Jewish leaders were concerned that Peled's recommendations might create negative repercussions.

"Just as it is inadvisable and inappropriate for the United States government to interfere in the domestic political affairs of the State of Israel, it is totally wrong-headed and dangerous for the Government of Israel to attempt to inject itself into American electoral politics," said William Daroff, director of the United Jewish Communities' Washington office.

"I have no doubt that Prime Minister Netanyahu did not know in advance about this proposal, and that he would reject it as outlandish."

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Old 06-10-2009, 06:18 PM
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Well, you shift, they shift. Where is the surprise? The question was, is and will be, "What have you done for me LATELY?". Like I have always said about our allies, and the dictionary too, when we have common ground, we move together. When we don't, we part company. We are not BFF nor can we expect them to ever be.

Or as we used to say in school:

Here's to you and here's to me
Best of friends we'll ever be
But if by chance we disagree
The fawk with you and here's to me.
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Old 06-10-2009, 06:21 PM
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Doesn't the US still give massive financial aid to Israel every year? If so, they have no leverage and they certainly won't find any other country more pro-Israel than the US. The last thing we need is to be any more pro-Israel than we already are. I think Obama's approach to Israel is a welcome change, albeit not as big as some like to think. We are still strong allies, it's just that right now there are right-wing hawks in power in Israel while the US political scene is left-of-center.
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Old 06-10-2009, 06:23 PM
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much as i would like to believe the u.s. will part ways with israel, i can promise you it will never happen. the israel lobby won't let it happen.
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Old 06-10-2009, 06:29 PM
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Those are brave words, considering Israel gets some $3 billion dollars/year in aid from the US. But I wouldn't mind if that figure were reduced.
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Old 06-10-2009, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas H View Post
Those are brave words, considering Israel gets some $3 billion dollars/year in aid from the US. But I wouldn't mind if that figure were reduced.
Same here.
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Old 06-10-2009, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DieselAddict View Post
We are still strong allies, it's just that right now there are right-wing hawks in power in Israel while the US political scene is left-of-center.
Not as strong as before. Hence them wanting to shift to be more independent.
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Old 06-10-2009, 06:41 PM
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Those are brave words, considering Israel gets some $3 billion dollars/year in aid from the US. But I wouldn't mind if that figure were reduced.
But would you also not mind if your influence in that region is reduced? Remember, more money, more influence. Think of a drug dealer. As a drug dealer, it is in my interest to keep you healthy enough to make money to buy my drugs AND still be hooked. It is NOT in my interest to have you off the hook. Money is the same thing. If you reduce their money, when you ask something of them, they can tell you to go fawk yourself more easily.
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Old 06-10-2009, 06:55 PM
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But would you also not mind if your influence in that region is reduced? Remember, more money, more influence. Think of a drug dealer. As a drug dealer, it is in my interest to keep you healthy enough to make money to buy my drugs AND still be hooked. It is NOT in my interest to have you off the hook. Money is the same thing. If you reduce their money, when you ask something of them, they can tell you to go fawk yourself more easily.
I prefer to think of Israel as a spoiled child receiving way to much allowance. It's time Israel behaved in a more globally responsible manner.
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:03 PM
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I prefer to think of Israel as a spoiled child receiving way to much allowance. It's time Israel behaved in a more globally responsible manner.
Irrespective of what you think of Israel, the question is whether we need to have influence in their end of the world or not. If we don't, tell them to go jump in the lake with a large rock around their neck. If we do and our influence is lessened, can we live with that? If so, great. If not, we too have some serious thinking to do. If you wean them off the allowance and suddenly decide to need them, what is to stop them from telling you to go jump in the lake with a rock around your neck? Like I said, if you don't need them, lets cut the cord. If we are going to need them, it might behoove us not to.

The question is whether Obama is muslim enough for the rest of the ME to rally around him. And what happens after Obama?
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:03 PM
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I prefer to think of Israel as a spoiled child receiving way to much allowance. It's time Israel behaved in a more globally responsible manner.
Very well said. x2
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:14 PM
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Those are brave words, considering Israel gets some $3 billion dollars/year in aid from the US. But I wouldn't mind if that figure were reduced.
And that $3 billion a year is just part of what Israel would be risking. The US is a very reliable support vote on the UN Security Council, and is prepared to throw around that veto power in Israel's interest. If that was to disappear, Israel could conceivably find itself on the receiving end of harsh economic sanctions that could cause economic harm and cut them off from international arms suppliers. Even worse is the optics of an Israeli legislator calling for such blatant exploitation of the Jewish vote to influence US politics. This could really impair AIPAC's ability to lobby effectively - the issue becomes too hot for members of Congress when they're under a microscope.

This minister without portfolio had better realize that Israel only exists because of US money and political protection. If those things were to vanish they would be overwhelmed. They'd kick some a$$ in the process, but there is no way they could stand up to the many Arab nations that would just as soon see them wiped off the map. The release of this document has the power to change US policy towards Israel far more than his initial fears of Obama's intentions.
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Chas H View Post
I prefer to think of Israel as a spoiled child receiving way to much allowance. It's time Israel behaved in a more globally responsible manner.
+1
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
But would you also not mind if your influence in that region is reduced? Remember, more money, more influence. Think of a drug dealer. As a drug dealer, it is in my interest to keep you healthy enough to make money to buy my drugs AND still be hooked. It is NOT in my interest to have you off the hook. Money is the same thing. If you reduce their money, when you ask something of them, they can tell you to go fawk yourself more easily.
It might not be bad to trade some of our influence on Israel for more influence on the rest of ME. Appearing less biased and pro-Israel could do us a lot of good. Maybe even help prevent another terrorist attack.
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Old 06-10-2009, 09:20 PM
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The US is a very reliable support vote on the UN Security Council, and is prepared to throw around that veto power in Israel's interest. If that was to disappear, Israel could conceivably find itself on the receiving end of harsh economic sanctions that could cause economic harm and cut them off from international arms suppliers. Even worse is the optics of an Israeli legislator calling for such blatant exploitation of the Jewish vote to influence US politics. This could really impair AIPAC's ability to lobby effectively - the issue becomes too hot for members of Congress when they're under a microscope.

This minister without portfolio had better realize that Israel only exists because of US money and political protection. If those things were to vanish they would be overwhelmed. They'd kick some a$$ in the process, but there is no way they could stand up to the many Arab nations that would just as soon see them wiped off the map. The release of this document has the power to change US policy towards Israel far more than his initial fears of Obama's intentions.
But at this point, with the shift in direction, can they count on US support? That guy is thinking that he'd better be ready for the shift to come. I would agree with him. After all, if I see that my company is moving in a direction that might not be good for me, what would you expect me to do? Wait till they really make a shift or simply get myself in a better position either by finding another job or getting training, etc, etc. We'd act the same way if the tables were turned and we know that.

Back in 45, yes. Not saying it won't be difficult without US support today. However, I think they are at the point where they can. That is why they are looking at Obama as a danger sign when he starts his pandering to the muslim world. I would too if I were in their shoes. I might not be so overt as this guy was but I'd be looking damn hard in other directions.

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