Former Defense Secretary Robert McNamara Dies at 93 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

LUVMBDiesels · #1 07-06-2009, 09:11 AM

Former Defense Secretary Robert McNamara Dies at 93 Robert S. McNamara died in his sleep at his home in Washington early this morning, family members said.

McNamara, who served as secretary of defense during the Vietnam War under presidents Kennedy and Johnson, was 93.

Geeze, what a huge write up about one of the most influential men of the mid 20th Century.

I recomend this movie he did a few years ago...
http://www.hotmoviesale.com/store/productView.aspx?idProduct=14732&ec=1&ProdID=39&utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=cpc&ysmwa=rAQo5Q92Q6tY2q0LJjqZd5-Z__7t_ggtCDqbNrqEllP--OfiSvsDNI0kO0Jxc-Oq

The scariest part was when he spoke to Castro and Fidel told him that if the missiles had been ready to go he would have launched them even knowing that we would have turned Cuba into a hole in the water...

JollyRoger · #2 07-06-2009, 11:32 AM

Hope he rots in hell.

LUVMBDiesels · #3 07-06-2009, 11:36 AM

OK, I'll bite... but he was a Democrat

Jim B. · #4 07-06-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

Hope he rots in hell.

How come?

In the mid-1950s, McNamara opposed Ford's planned Edsel automobile and worked to stop the program even before the first car rolled off the assembly line. He eventually succeeded in ending the program in November 1959. The car continues to be seen as one of the largest blunders in automotive history. (from wiki)

JollyRoger · #5 07-06-2009, 02:27 PM

Apparently you weren't alive in the 1960's

kerry · #6 07-06-2009, 03:05 PM

If there is any justice, he will burn in hell, not rot. Not only did he kill tens of thousands of South East Asians, he also ws involved in the firebombing of tokyo.

Medmech · #7 07-06-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

If there is any justice, he will burn in hell, not rot. Not only did he kill tens of thousands of South East Asians, he also ws involved in the firebombing of tokyo.

.
I thought you were Aetheist.

MS Fowler · #8 07-06-2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

How come?

In the mid-1950s, McNamara opposed Ford's planned Edsel automobile and worked to stop the program even before the first car rolled off the assembly line. He eventually succeeded in ending the program in November 1959. The car continues to be seen as one of the largest blunders in automotive history. (from wiki)

He also gets "credit" for the 4 passenger T-Bird. Some purists hate the 4 place T-Bird, but the 2 place car was scheduled to be killed. McNamara stepped in and got it saved, but as a 4 person car.
His true "claim to (automotive) fame" was the Falcon. Basic, honest, reliable transportation. Best selling new car introduction since the Model A--which some say was the idealogical predecessor of the Falcon. Iaacoca took the plain-jane Falcon and rebodied it into Mustang, and THAT became the most sucessful new car introduction. So AFAIK, Ford has the top three new car introductions in automotive history--Model A, Falcon, and Mustang.
Then McNamara went to work for JFK, and things kinda, sorts went downhill from there. I believe he was the originator of the daily body bag counts--his way of showing we were winning. (sigh)

LUVMBDiesels · #9 07-06-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

He also gets "credit" for the 4 passenger T-Bird. Some purists hate the 4 place T-Bird, but the 2 place car was scheduled to be killed. McNamara stepped in and got it saved, but as a 4 person car.
His true "claim to (automotive) fame" was the Falcon. Basic, honest, reliable transportation. Best selling new car introduction since the Model A--which some say was the idealogical predecessor of the Falcon. Iaacoca took the plain-jane Falcon and rebodied it into Mustang, and THAT became the most sucessful new car introduction. So AFAIK, Ford has the top three new car introductions in automotive history--Model A, Falcon, and Mustang.
Then McNamara went to work for JFK, and things kinda, sorts went downhill from there. I believe he was the originator of the daily body bag counts--his way of showing we were winning. (sigh)

He was all about statistics.

He figured you could apply them to everything from bombing Tokyo to building cars, to Vietnam.

In his defense, and if you watch his documentary that I posed in the OP, the Tokyo bombing was NOT his idea, but was done under Generals Arnold and LeMay. His contribution was coming up with the statistical formulas that showed how effective each raid was and how the entire campaign was going. The raids destroyed Japan's ability to fight and convinced them to surrender. The A-bombs were the last straw.

In the USAAF's defense they did drop leaflets a couple days before a bombing raid urging the civilians to flee. If that saved any lives is a bine of contention.

In the Kennedy years he was present for both the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis. The aforementioned meeting with Castro that took placed years later showed that Kennedy did the right thing in not letting Fidel have the bomb.

Vietnam was Johnson's fault much more than McNamara's although the statistics thing was his again and things like the carpet bombing raids were a result of the success against Tokyo 20 years before. Unfortunately, or fortunately, Vietnam didnot have the population density or infrastructure to make strategic bombing a workable idea.

Bob McNamara is a very complex and flawed personality. No doubt but that he had a profound iimpact on the USA and the world. Watch the movie before judging him. It changed my opinon of the guy...

kerry · #10 07-06-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUVMBDiesels

Watch the movie before judging him. It changed my opinon of the guy...

I've seen the movie and his attempt to salve his conscience. No denying he was a complex guy. Still does not exonerate him. His idea that he should have considered whether the domino theory of SE Asia was accurate as if he just didn't think deeply enough at the time is BS. There were lots of critics of the war who would have been happy to point out the flaws in the theory. McNamara was unwilling to listen.

aklim · #11 07-06-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Not only did he kill tens of thousands of South East Asians, he also ws involved in the firebombing of tokyo.

So? It was war at that time.

tankdriver · #12 07-06-2009, 06:50 PM

He was my dad's boss (several levels up) at the World Bank.

Hatterasguy · #13 07-06-2009, 07:51 PM

He was an interesting person. I wasn't wild about him trying to run Viatnam by the numbers, I think their could have been better policy in place so we could have won that war.

I thought the movie was pretty good.

MS Fowler · #14 07-06-2009, 08:04 PM

As LUVMBDiesels said, he was a complex man--like most people.

I was struck by some similarities between him, and his career and those of Hitler's architect, Albrecht Speer. They both started in private industry but were drawn into government by a charismatic leader. They were both "numbers" guys, who got "results" albeit of a somewhat mixed nature.
I am sure there are more similarities.

t walgamuth · #15 07-06-2009, 10:34 PM

I read Speer's book. He was a man who was good at getting things done. In his book he said basically that although he did not know about the concentration camps he could have found out about them.

He did know about the slave labor making munitions, etc. He apparently ordered those in charge of the slave labor camps to feed the POWs more when the policy in place before had been to feed the prisoners just enough to get quite a bit of work out of them before they died.

He made a pretty convincing case....was it truthful? I don't know.

At the Nuremberg trials he was the only Nazi who pled guilty, and as a result received a 20 year sentence instead of being executed.

The book is a decent read.

Ths suggested parallel with Mac is interesting. I'll have to get Mac's book and have a read.

I had a client who met Mac out on Cape cod and had dinner with him. My client was impressed with Mac.