Former CIGNA CEO says Michael Moore was right in Sicko.. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

AdvisorGuy · #1 07-13-2009, 10:28 PM

Bill Moyers interview

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-M10jDkmm0
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv1FwOCNoZ8

If you've never seen Sicko, it's worth a watch....

Hatterasguy · #2 07-13-2009, 10:38 PM

Moore is a POS.

But in this case he is somewhat right, we need healthcare reform.

280EZRider · #3 07-13-2009, 11:30 PM

This is a powerful wake-up call. And just as government loyalists in 1776 called Adams, Jefferson, and Washington crazy radicals then, they call people like Michael Moore a crazy radical today.

pj67coll · #4 07-13-2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 280EZRider

This is a powerful wake-up call. And just as government loyalists in 1776 called Adams, Jefferson, and Washington crazy radicals then, they call people like Michael Moore a crazy radical today.

I don't. I just call him a dumbass.

- Peter.

tbomachines · #5 07-14-2009, 12:10 AM

CIGNA is awful. Trust me. We do need healthcare reform in this country, but again the government isn't really in tune with what the industry needs and how it operates.

AdvisorGuy · #6 07-14-2009, 12:24 AM

I agree.. What I take away from the movie is that the system is broken and no one wants to fix it because it makes them too much $$$$.. Scare tactics about every other system and how bad they are but no concern for how broken ours is. A friend is hiv+. He's decided to go on medication - $1800 per month if his insurance didn't cover it. Google "The Other Side of AIDS" and watch it if you have 90 minutes and are curious. 25+ years into the great HIV/AIDS scare/pandemic and where's the great pools of death ? No mass graves they scared us with, no medical care workers dropping like flies.... But there's $1800 meds....

tbomachines · #7 07-14-2009, 12:31 AM

The main issue with the healthcare system today is that EVERY aspect of it needs to be modified in order for anything to happen. Most often blame is placed solely on the insurance companies, but the reality of it is that they are only a small piece of the puzzle. It ranges from private unregulated pharmaceuticals to Doctors overcharging/overdiagnosing to employers having misconceptions about the plans they purchase for their employees.

Jorn · #8 07-14-2009, 01:08 AM

I think the problem with healthcare in the US is it's not based on preventing but on "curing" deceases and in most cases "curing" means an endless stream of revenue. Like the the $1800 a month for Aids patients, patients are a commodity just like prisoners in this country.

RichC · #9 07-14-2009, 04:55 AM

There is a quote I cannot quite remember.

Something about,

You can tell the health of a country by looking at how they treat their weakest citizens.

Dang, thats not it,

LUVMBDiesels · #10 07-14-2009, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdvisorGuy

I agree.. What I take away from the movie is that the system is broken and no one wants to fix it because it makes them too much $$$$.. Scare tactics about every other system and how bad they are but no concern for how broken ours is. A friend is hiv+. He's decided to go on medication - $1800 per month if his insurance didn't cover it. Google "The Other Side of AIDS" and watch it if you have 90 minutes and are curious. 25+ years into the great HIV/AIDS scare/pandemic and where's the great pools of death ? No mass graves they scared us with, no medical care workers dropping like flies.... But there's $1800 meds....

Yes, but how many different pills does he need to take? Who did the research and development of these pills? Who sent the 17 tractor trailers full of documentation to the FDA for review and approval and then waitied to see if the drug would be rejected? ( I used to help do New Drug Applications for S-P ) If you think that doing things like making drugs not patentable will lower drug costs, you are right, but there will be NO new drugs formulated...

Also I do believe that there are programs to help cover the costs of these meds if you cannot afford them.

I agree that health care needs to be 'fixed'. My friend who is a nurse is 99% burned out from working multiple 12 hour shifts that switch between day and night interspersed with 8 hour shifts so that sometimes she only gets 4 hours "off". Having nurses sent home to get them off the clock while patients keep rolling onto her floor, and in general being treated worse than any Ford factory worker was in 1933!

What is needed is a true reform of the industry staring with giving the people who hold OUR LIVES in THEIR HANDS enough sleep to make good judgments and remain able to do their jobs.
I just got off the phone with her trying to calm her down enough to go into work today. She is an excellent nurse with experience and lots of commendations from the hospital and kudos from her patients and their families, but the conditions she is working under have driven her to the point of quitting.

Nationalizing insurance will not do that as even city run and Federal , read, VA, hospitals pull the same crap.

The same goes for Interns and Residents. My sister in law had to pull 36 hour shifts during her residency. I cannot imagine having a young inexperienced Dr. making life or death judgments on a couple of cat naps in the lounge... It is no wondder malpractice insurance is so high. She now gets paid a lot but over 50% of her gross goes to MPI!

We need to fix the malpractice lawsuits to bring down the cost of MPI, reduce Dr's wages so that they take home the same amount, but since they do not need to pay out so much they can now charge less.

Fix the way hospitals treat their staff.

Make NDA eaiser and quicker to process, believe me a lot of the R&D budget goes to preparing for the NDA to go to the FDA

All this would lower the cost of health care.

Then to enable anybody without insurance that is willing to PAY for it, simply open the Federal insurance plans to anybody who wants them. There are dozens of good plans from BC/BS traditional plans to HMOs offered to Federal employees at very reasonable rates due to the size of the groups. If you allow the public access to these plans the cost per person would go down even more.
Make it voluntary and make them pay the premium and I have no problem with it. But to give away insurance will kill off everyting else and we would be stuck with NHS

END OF RANT

RichC · #11 07-14-2009, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Moore is a POS.

But in this case he is somewhat right, we need healthcare reform.

------------------

What information did you base your opinion of Michel Moore on ?

I seriously want to know.

Have you ever watched one of his movies all the way thru ?
Or listened to an unbiased critique of his work ?

DieselAddict · #12 07-14-2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUVMBDiesels

Yes, but how many different pills does he need to take? Who did the research and development of these pills? Who sent the 17 tractor trailers full of documentation to the FDA for review and approval and then waitied to see if the drug would be rejected? ( I used to help do New Drug Applications for S-P ) If you think that doing things like making drugs not patentable will lower drug costs, you are right, but there will be NO new drugs formulated...

Also I do believe that there are programs to help cover the costs of these meds if you cannot afford them.

I agree that health care needs to be 'fixed'. My friend who is a nurse is 99% burned out from working multiple 12 hour shifts that switch between day and night interspersed with 8 hour shifts so that sometimes she only gets 4 hours "off". Having nurses sent home to get them off the clock while patients keep rolling onto her floor, and in general being treated worse than any Ford factory worker was in 1933!

What is needed is a true reform of the industry staring with giving the people who hold OUR LIVES in THEIR HANDS enough sleep to make good judgments and remain able to do their jobs.
I just got off the phone with her trying to calm her down enough to go into work today. She is an excellent nurse with experience and lots of commendations from the hospital and kudos from her patients and their families, but the conditions she is working under have driven her to the point of quitting.

Nationalizing insurance will not do that as even city run and Federal , read, VA, hospitals pull the same crap.

The same goes for Interns and Residents. My sister in law had to pull 36 hour shifts during her residency. I cannot imagine having a young inexperienced Dr. making life or death judgments on a couple of cat naps in the lounge... It is no wondder malpractice insurance is so high. She now gets paid a lot but over 50% of her gross goes to MPI!

We need to fix the malpractice lawsuits to bring down the cost of MPI, reduce Dr's wages so that they take home the same amount, but since they do not need to pay out so much they can now charge less.

Fix the way hospitals treat their staff.

Make NDA eaiser and quicker to process, believe me a lot of the R&D budget goes to preparing for the NDA to go to the FDA

All this would lower the cost of health care.

Then to enable anybody without insurance that is willing to PAY for it, simply open the Federal insurance plans to anybody who wants them. There are dozens of good plans from BC/BS traditional plans to HMOs offered to Federal employees at very reasonable rates due to the size of the groups. If you allow the public access to these plans the cost per person would go down even more.
Make it voluntary and make them pay the premium and I have no problem with it. But to give away insurance will kill off everyting else and we would be stuck with NHS

END OF RANT

I agree with most of what you said and I didn't even know some nurses work under such conditions. I wonder how widespread it really is. I disagree however that "giving away" insurance would lead to an NHS-like system. Nothing is actually free and there's different ways to charge for the public insurance. You can do it directly like you propose, or indirectly through taxes. Many countries, including France which supposedly has the #1 rated health care system in the world, have public insurance and private doctors and hospitals. Britain with its NHS is more of an exception. It's important for the public insurance plan to be powerful enough to negotiate prices with the industry, otherwise it will not help lower prices. I'm not sure a bunch of federal health plans can do that. A single payer system is really what's needed. As far as I'm concerned, the private health insurance industry can die if it can't compete with the single-payer system.

DieselAddict · #13 07-14-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

------------------

What information did you base your opinion of Michel Moore on ?

I seriously want to know.

Have you ever watched one of his movies all the way thru ?
Or listened to an unbiased critique of his work ?

I'm guessing he doesn't like him because Moore criticized the Iraq War and all the lies that it was based on, but that's another topic.

#14 07-14-2009, 02:02 PM

Drug companies spend more money each year on advertising than they will on R&D on the drugs, by something like 2 to 1. So I don't feel bad for them at all. They have more than enough fat they can trim. And the insurance companies are the biggest crooks of them all. Spend your money and time with them and when the time comes you need something. Then they deny deny deny. And there needs to be limits on how much you can sue a doctor for their malpractice insurance is just crazy!

HuskyMan · #15 07-14-2009, 02:43 PM

I think there are some who miss the point of the movie "Sicko" due to their dislike of Michael Moore. one point the movie makes is that health insurance is one giant ponzi scheme. financially they will pay off small claims all day long, but when that $250,000 claim for brain cancer treatment comes through...BAM out comes the REJECT stamp. if they were to authorize the expensive (as in $200K PLUS PLUS) treatment, their ROI wouldn't look very good, would it?

the movie states in the beginning it is NOT about people WITHOUT health insurance coverage. the movie's focus is about people who DO have health insurance who feel they are "covered". they are covered right up until that ultra-expensive cancer treatment claim is submitted. then you find out just what your health insurance coverage is all about......the allmighty BUCK.

BTW, check out a copy of A.M. Best's guide to insurance at your local library. look up the P&L for your health insurance carrier. can you say, MAJOR PROFITS as in FIRE UP THE GULF STREAM BOYS, WE ARE GOING TO ASPEN!!