My C230's problems...apprently newer MB's aren't so great?
 

So I thought I was doing the prudent, smart thing when I bought my 1998 C230, because I thought that buying a newer car would mean less problems. It's also in AMAZING shape with 141k miles. Well, apparently I was wrong, because I have had more problems with this car in the last few months than I have ever had with an older MB. O_O

Firstly, it keeps blowing light bulbs (three so far) and the check engine light comes on randomly, with a misfire code. Still haven't been able to figure out what's going on with it. Then the AC blower regulator went bad...had to replace it with a new part. One of the flaps just started making an insanely loud high-pitched squealing sound whenever the air is direct at the floor...so I have to have it blowing at the windshield constantly. -_-

The most recent breakdown occurred about two weeks ago, and it was the transmission. It failed catastrophically in a parking lot when I was driving at about 2mph...loud banging noises, and the car came to a stop with a puddle of ATF on the ground. Had it towed to the mechanic, and the bill is now $2500 and rising. Apparently something had broken inside the tranny, and put tiny shards of metal everywhere...damaged just about every gear in the planetary set (I think that's what it's called) and the valve body was loaded with metal shavings. Strange since I had just had the fluid checked about a month ago, and everything looked fine. The fluid now looks black.

Anyway, I have had problems with this newer MB, and my father has had a lot of problems with his 02' C240, and 01' E55...makes me think that the newer MB's just aren't built to the same standards as the older pre-91 MB's. What do you guys think?

While not defending Mercedes on every vehicle they've made during the past 20 years . . . did you have the vehicles maintenance records to inspect before purchase; did you have the vehicle inspected before purchase by a qualified MB tech; how much did you pay for this creampuff?

I've had more trouble with the older ones, so I don't really buy this newer = less reliable notion. The newer ones are certainly more complicated and more things can go wrong, but on the other hand I believe the newer ones are generally built to a higher precision, particularly the engine and are less likely to burn oil as they get old. Certainly the previous owner's maintenance & care makes a big difference as does the particular year, make and model. Chances are your car still had the original transmission fluid as MB used to tell people it had a lifetime fill, but that's never been true and MB has stopped saying that.

BTW, my 2004 TDI has been the most trouble-free used car I've ever had.

Only an MB addict will call a '98 a "newer" MB. :)

Its 11 years old and has 141k miles on it. Thats not a bad service life from a trans, was the fluid ever changed?

I think thats a crappy service life!

Me too...

I thought this was one of the models that had "lifetime fluid" or something like that. Isn't that correct? I have no idea if the transmission fluid was ever changed. When I first bought the car, I checked it, and it looked perfect, didn't smell burnt or anything. Then a month later, the fluid is black, and smells TERRIBLE. Seems like something just decided to break, I doubt the age of the fluid would have made much difference.

So why'd they lie?

- Peter.

Oh, I also forgot to mention that the torque converter showed signs of overheating. The metal around the input shaft was completely blue from heat.

I certainly agree. In my opinion it will take them a very long time to regain my respect for their product. I regard their new ones as ****. This may be unfair. They might have started to make siginificant improvements on the disasters they had since the begining of their decline. But I'm still hearing too many stories like yours to believe that.

My wife had a 2000 or 2002 can't remember exactly which year ML. She loved it apart from the couple of thousand dollars she'd have to drop at the dealership every few months for some or other bizarre problem. Eventually there was a 7 thousdand dollar component in the engine that went out at which point she said **** this and traded it. She's had far fewer problems with her 05 Saturn VUE so far than she ever had with her ML.

In my opinion they are trading on their reputation from past glory which is fading fast.

- Peter.

Find a good used transmission to install and sell. No point in spending over half the value of the car on a transmission, especially if you don't like it.

I decided to do a PPI on my W124 purchase and it saved my butt. I got the seller to bump of 2k for the head gasket leak. After having it fixed, the car gave me 6 months of trouble free service.

Bummer on the tranny. The whistling vent could be the cabin filter (there was a TSB on that.) The misfire could be the plug connectors which are 15.00 each and you need 2. I have never heard of the blowing bulbs on that car. The CEL will come on with the misfire. My car has more miles than that and I never had any of those problems. Did have a coil go bad 3 days ago. That cost 65.00 for the part. The code accurately located the bad coil.

I don't know if they lied. They may have simply lived and learned. I take these lifetime fill claims to mean the lifetime of the warranty. A lot of people probably believe it means the fluid never needs changing, but I don't think that's true on any car.

Those early 2000's ML's were built at MB's new Alabama plant. I've heard many bad things about the early ML's.

You might want to test drive a new E-class Bluetec sometime. Maybe your opinion that their new products are **** will change. I certainly think it's the best diesel they ever built, at least based on my brief driving experience and overall perceived quality. Only time will tell if they are durable, but I have no reason to believe they're not. The CDI's are holding up pretty well, at least based on the almost 100% positive reviews on Edmunds.

I take lifetime to mean exactly that. Lifetime. That means it doesn't need changing ever. If they want to go all lawyer on your ass and explain that it just means the lifetime of the warrantee then they should have done that and not listened to some idiot in the marketing department..

- Peter.

I'll be delighted if that turns out to be the case. But as I said. After the rod bender, the eco-freak wiring harness, the # 14 head, the air suspension, the evap screw ups, the spring perches etc, they have a long hill ahead of them to climb, in my opinion.

- Peter.

It probably means "the lifetime of the transmission" which is true. It all depends on what you want that lifetime to be. The manufacturer is liable only for the duration of the warranty.

If I recall correctly I've read something about the early OM616/7 engines having weak valvetrains and I've seen many W123 ads that said the engine had been rebuilt. And something about the early W123 climate control units being faulty too. So I don't know if there was a sudden drop in quality in the mid 1980's as some people believe. I think quality problems have come and gone throughout MB's entire history, and the same is probably true for all manufacturers to various extents. But I do think MB still tries to ride on a reliability reputation from the past that it doesn't fully deserve. No doubt some of the other brands are more reliable and MB may be too arrogant to acknowledge that.

I don't believe it was mid 1980's. I think the really serious probelms accumulated in the 90's. I'd forgotten about the climate control but that was specific to the US market. For some reason Mercedes decided they had to use the ghastly Chrysler Autotemp II unit in the US because apparently the regular non US air conditoining system wasn't "sophisticated" enough. A stupid decision in my opinion but not in the same league as the later problems that are unforgivable engineering lapses for a company such as Mercedes Benz.

- Peter.

I agree. Especially the rod-bending in an S-class. Totally unacceptable. Even if the problem was contributed to by low-cetane US diesel fuel, it's not an excuse. MB should have thought of that. The W210 spring perch issue was a nasty surprise to me personally. I probably wouldn't have bought this car had I known about it.

I see in your signature you used to own some gasser MB's from the 70's. How was the reliability? Those were carburetted, right?

I think it was probably just an unlucky break.....I know that tobybul here on the forum has a 1997 C220 with over 300k on an original engine/trans with no issues. Its all about the maintenance. Cars serviced their whole life will last much longer without major issues.

My trans in my SD just blew on me a couple weeks ago completely at random, perfectly fine one day, making noises and having some real shifting problems (and almost no reverse) the next. Its toast, and I found a used one to put in. At 282k....I feel the trans did its service. The replacement has 163k and was running good with clean fluid. Hopefully it lasts as long as the one that failed in my car. My dad's SD with 315k has its original trans, and it shifts great, even had a shop re-seal it, and they said it looks great inside. Some last longer than others....

My mom had a 2000 C230 Kompressor which was maintained by the book from new. She got it with about 18,000 miles on it. She had numerous problems with it. Like the other fellow here, she had trouble with light bulbs going out, frequent "Check Engine" lights of unknown cause, and multiple oxygen sensor replacements. I think the oxygen sensor thing was probably a mechanic who started replacing things because he didn't know how to evaluate trouble codes, so that one is not entirely the car's fault.

It was a sweet car and she loved it, despite it's problems. She only gave it up because she was no longer able to drive (which was very sad, BTW).

To each his own, but I haven't seen a Mercedes that interests me since about 1987.

Let me say that I also have the first generation C Class. 2000 C280. It has around 85,000 miles and has a money pit from day one. I just think the C Class in general is a poor car. My cousin has a 2007 and it has been great. He had befoe that a 2004 C Class. Again a great car. Ran it to 100,000 miles with no issues. 100K came and a $1,600 repair bill. Got rid of it. But it has 100,000 miles. Something is bound to go. Yours has 141,000 miles. That is a lot. Im surprised your 1998 C lasted that long considering all the issues I have had with mine. As far as quality goes. YES Mercedes hit a hole in the road with some of the cars(The First generation C being one of the worst I belive.)

They were. I learned some very valuable lessons on those. My first was the 71 280S. It had twin Solex carbs. I bought it when it was around 20 years old with a couple of hundred thousand KM's on it. This was in SA. Reliability wise it was fantastic. The only serious problems with it were the right rear wheel bearing had to be replaced and the transmission modulator as well. The modulator however was a rather easy and inexpensive fix. And as I lived in a hilly town that transmission worked hard all its life.

One thing I remember in particular about that car was the fantastic starting. The routine was depress the accellerator pedal to the floor once, then half way down again and switch it on. It literally leaped instantly to life as soon as you gave the slightest pressure to the key, almost like there was a telepathic link between the car and the driver.

Durban is one of the most rust prone places on earth. Car's literally just fall apart there. No matter what make or model and that car is the one where the steering shaft snapped on me and that's when I discovered the realities of rust in the chassis box section that the steering box mounts to as well as the requirements in the service manaual to torque the steering box mounting bolts to the correct spec at regular intervals. Something I'm quite sure had never been done in the life of the car.

My 79 280S was the dreaded Solex 4A carb. Essentially two twin barrel carbs mated into one. It never ran right and I was not mechanically inclined enough to mess with it. Back in SA in those days there was no internet, no online community like this that provided a goldmine of info and I was essentially at the mercy of mechanics. When the engine was cold the carb worked great but then it warmed up only the first or second stage world work. Cant remember which now but you basically had accelleration similar to a 240D. Once you got up to speed though it was smoothe as silk and a fantastic highway cruiser. It had 308K KM's on it when I bought it and it needed valve stem seals replaced which I never did because it was too expensive for me back then. So it smoked a bit but other than that no problems. Apart from rust. In that respect it was worse than the 108. I've read in several places that the German steelworkers strike forced them to use crap steel from Russia and Italy. Don't know the truth of that but the car was definately not as solid in that department as it's predecessor.

My 1984 200 was also a carb car. No problems with it at all. Apart from my wrecking the manual gearbox when I downshifted incorrectly comming off a freeway offramp and ground up the gears pretty good. I didn't let the clutch in all the way and kind of rammed the stick down from 4th to 3rd. My fault and a replacement unit from a wrecking yard worked fine for the duration of the time I had the car.

- Peter.

Any 10-11 year old car could have similar problems. That's a trade-off from buying new w/ warranty, etc., you save a bunch of money on the front-end, but might get burned on high-dollar repairs.

As far as "newer" MB's being less reliable. Bull. I've got a stack of receipts dated 1982-1992 for my w123, for repairs that shouldn't be considered routine maintenance...

Yeah I know people who bought them new, they were never cheap cars to own. My broker has had her 86 SDL since new and drops a few grand into it every year like clock work.

One of my dads friends had an 82 or 83 300SD he bought new and sold a year later. It would never start in the winter and even MB couldn't figure it out under warranty. After a year he said screw this, you spend $40k+ on a new S class and after sitting outside a restaurant on a cold winter night for a few hours it doesn't start? F that. He sold it and bought a 1986 300E a few years later.

My grandfather had good luck with his 1987 560SL he bought new, but he sold it before he had 3k miles on it.:D

All high end cars require cash infusions, if paying bothers you don't play. Buy a Toyota.

IMO, they shouldn't. Like that friend of your dad's said, why would you spend all that money on an S-class if it doesn't start or has other problems? Maybe that's why Lexus is doing pretty good. It doesn't take much to figure out that customers who spend big bucks on luxury want reliability as much as anyone else if not more. Paying big bucks for routine maintenance at the dealer is one thing, but having to bring the car in for unexpected problems is quite another.

Well, I got the car back from the mechanic...and took it on my trip to Portland (from LA). Everything was fine until about 10 miles before Portland. Then it started making grinding sounds, and by the time I arrived at my father's house, the transmission had had it... It was making really bad grinding sounds, and popping noises just like it had done during the first breakdown...There is also a puddle of ATF under it in the driveway at the moment as well...Oh, and I should also mention the check engine light was illuminated the whole time as well. :rolleyes: I guess the transmission rebuild wasn't done properly, even though it was driving PERFECTLY when I picked it up from the mechanic. :\ I even saw the transmission at every step of the process, and it looked like he knew what he was doing. It was very clean and looked brand new when he put it back in the car. He even used OEM MB fluid.

So basically, I'm not sure what to do now. I am 1,000 miles from home, and I would consider the car to be inoperative. So my only option would be to tow it, correct? That would cost an astronomical amount of money... I'm tempted to just drive it until it stops and hopefully get it close enough to home so that AAA will tow it.

So now my wallet is $2,500 lighter, my car is still broken, and I'm stranded 1k miles from home. What would you guys do?

AAA will tow 100 miles. Do you think you can make the other 900? I might do this, try to get home. If the car dies, get it towed 100 miles to a gas station. Once you are there, call AAA and have them tow it 100 miles to another gas station, etc...

The trans should have a warranty. When I had to have the ZF box replaced in my BMW, it lasted all of 4 months before it failed. I had it replaced for free. It turned out that they rebuilder had left a plastic cap on a part and it had come loose inside the trans. I was lucky to get four months of use out of it.

Maybe the same thing happened to yours...

Can you call your mechanic and see if you can bring the car to another place to get it fixed?
What kind of warranty did you get?

MAYBE IT IS TIME TO MOVE ON
 

Call the mechanic and raise holy hell.


What kind of warranty did it have, the "around the world or around the block whicheve comes first?" like used cars get??? (It says you drove it there right after the car was fixed, right?)


If it was ME, and knowing the questionable reliability of the cars, I would simply sell it if it is running, donate if it's not, and look for an older well kept one.


Like a nice W123 or a W126 if it's been well kept with all records.Maybe it is time to move on.


Time to accept the fact that you now have a carp money eating POS on your hands, and that 11 years, or 141k is an acceptable service life for this car, just like it is for some Ford Taurus, Chevrolet Celebrity, or Buick Century.

It's really true the early C classes of those W202s, and pretty much ALL of them from 2000 to 2007 are pretty much a gamble, you might get a good one but probably you will get a bad one, as they were built to a price point and not any longer with Engineers in charge, with predictable results for the buyers.


Maybe it is time to move on, your car reminds me of an abusive wife that you need to divorce.




Just my opinion.

Jim, you always crack me up...lol. I totally agree with buying an older W126. (I really want a 350SDL, but I'll probably have to settle for a 300SD.) It needs to be diesel.

Good news about my C230, though...I decided to take my chances and drive it back, and it made the drive back to SoCal without problems! Although it was making horrible grinding sounds, and the Check engine light was on the entire way, and I got a speeding ticket. -_- Even got 29.6MPG, as well. :) It's going to the mechanic first thing in the morning.

Another data point...

We've had our 1998 C280 since new. Best car we've ever owned. Daily driver and commute vehicle - plenty of stop/go, always 28MPG, and we drive the he11 out of it. 130K, not a single major problem. Beyond regularly scheduled maintenance and expected wear/tear items, I've less than $1K in the vehicle to address minor issues (2 stop light switches, 02 sensor, CPS, seat relay, rear light assemblies.)

No leaks, no rattles, no squeaks, just about as tight as they day we took delivery. I've done most of the routine maintenance since it went out of warranty, and it's one of the easiest cars to work on I've owned.

According to two independents I've used for repairs beyond my ability, my experience isn't out of the ordinary for this model when well maintained.