bankruptcy? have you or will you need to? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Hatterasguy · #16 08-11-2009, 10:29 AM

BK is an important aspect of any capitalist system. You need a clearing house for the system to work.

barry123400 · #17 08-11-2009, 09:33 PM

I too hope for the best. The first really hopeful sign might be if energy was properly dealt with. Heavy rationing comes to mind. According to senate testimony about a year ago we spent about 600 million dollars per minute on imported energy alone. It is lower now but almost as severe for practical purposes. Up here we in Canada we add to that of course. At least we have some energy sales to offset imports somewhat. I do not know the ratio.

If there are about 400 million men women and children in north america. That alone would be about a dollar and fifty cents per minute for every person alive. Twenty four hours a day. If this does not clue people into why the government must borrow continiously until they just cannot get funds nothing will.

Logic states that cannot be sustained and events are proving it every day. I am at a loss as to why the total problem has not been properly identified and acknowledged rather than the effects just tolerated. Plus some lip service. That to me is a major problem.

It is or should be no suprise that the offsett will damage many things. At present the tigre is just being held at bay barely. Yes it is inevatable for bankrupcuies to occur and increase under such a situation. A tidal wave of them in fact may occur.

The losses are spreading around in fact in an attempt to compensate. At least partial payment has to come from the average guy in one form or another. The real value of your assets are in decline for example. Or soon will be. He is already almost too strapped to pay much more or soon may be.

Basically real wealth is being lost. This will occur in one sector after another. The current propping up just buys time. Time to prepare for the individual is important as well. Many can construct a fall back position. If the above does not unfold you will be in a much better position as a result.

That still is not enough. There must be real changes sooner than later. Nobody wants them but the alternative is just too serious. The question now is when do the major impacts really get serious. I know it is not a garden party right now either.

As a Canadian with a medical plan that is not really free. Yet every citizen of this county has it. I have been aware of your people needing it as there is a strong chance most will no longer be able to afford a private medical plan at some point. My time frame for this is unknown at present.

I have been very reluctant to discuss this area on this forum. Unless some or many structual changes are implemented sooner than later we are really in for it. With the right changes implemented right now the future may in fact be tollerable. The problem is they are just not happening. The society has to live within it's means. There is no other option. Almost everything else is smoke and mirrors. I too hate gloom and doom. At best our standard of living has to deteriorate. How is anything else possible?

Now if there is some miracle cure to current dillemas I am all ears. Our society is based on faith rather than reality. I understand the concepts. Faith or confidence can only be stretched so far. We have trusted our political leaders far too much over the years in my opinion. Honesty and the common sense of intelligence would have been harder to swallow yet much better again in my opinion. There seems little left to trust. I also hope I am totally wrong in my feelings. That too is quite possible.

I also do not dwell or am fixated by what I see occuring. Just not prepared to stick my head in the sand totally and expect faith to totally overcome reality. Yes things are a little brighter than a few months ago. The cost of this imiprovememnt has been horrendous and is going to remain so until it can no longer be supported.

Basically the new primary causitives of bankrupcy may not be mostly totally self inflicted as they where in my earlier time is what I am driving at. External unknown at present factors may come to predominate instead.

aklim · #18 08-11-2009, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry123400

If this does not clue people into why the government must borrow continiously until they just cannot get funds nothing will.

I have been aware of your people needing it as there is a strong chance most will no longer be able to afford a private medical plan at some point.

The society has to live within it's means. There is no other option. Almost everything else is smoke and mirrors.Honesty and the common sense of intelligence would have been harder to swallow yet much better again in my opinion. There seems little left to trust.

You don't think the other programs we have to pay for that generate little besides a vote for the politician has anything to do with it? I do. We have all sorts of items sneaked into a good bill like a hostage situation. A million here, 10 there, etc, etc and soon we have a huge bill.

Yes and no. IF the cost of the plan remains the same and income goes down, sure. However, if the income goes down, the plan either dissolves or lowers it's price as with most everything. You can continue to sell your widgets at $10 but 2 people might be able to afford it or drop the price to $5 and 20 might be able to buy it. Kinda like housing now. Sure, you can tell me that you want $300K for your house but I can also tell you to jump in the lake. Either drop that price or keep your house.

Unlike what we have been taught, honesty may be the best policy but it will not win you a job if the other guy is dishonest and runs against you.

HuskyMan · #19 08-12-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 280EZRider

Bankruptcy many times is just a sleezy way out for criminals. In 1996, I was was ripped off - 50K - by a husband & wife team in Portland, OR (Thomas Jeffery Kasinger & Sandra Heart). To avoid paying me, she filed for bankruptcy and he went into hiding. At the hearing, the guy in charge, who was not a judge, asked her where all the money had gone. She lamely responded that it just got used up in their business. There were about 6 of us owed money by this slime-***** and each was asked if we wanted to say anything. When the woman sitting next to me was asked to comment, she said that she was simply there representing Nordstroms and wanted to offer Sandra Heart a Nordstroms credit card.

exactly, heard a story recently from a friend. some idiot hit her car and totaled it. the guy that hit her had no insurance, so she thought she would sue him for the damages. guy then files for bankruptcy protection so she was screwed.

there is a lot to the bankruptcy code and it isn't pretty. for instance, if business A is paid for labor or services it is performing or supplying to Business B and Business B goes bankrupt, the trustee can ORDER Business A to repay all the monies they have been paid! think about that one for a moment, news fans. if your company is being paid for goods or services it is supplying to another company and that company goes BANKRUPT, it could darn well send your company into bankruptcy as well! the system is working.

Medmech · #20 08-12-2009, 11:39 AM

IIRC the thread is about consumer bankruptcy.

75Sv1 · #21 08-12-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medmech

IIRC the thread is about consumer bankruptcy.

OK, one spouse is responsilbe with money. The other racks up the CC debt. Since married, the responsible spouse is legally tied to the other spouses debt. I think the present BR rules were put in place due to defaults on CC. The CC and Banks were suppose to play fair. I haven't been stung by them, but it looks like others rates have skyrocketed. Also, gas prices going up, put a lot of home owners against the wall. I think that was the start of this recession.
Tom

Matt L · #22 08-12-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medmech

You are being a hypocrite by saying that you can hide money to not pay bills while saying that bankruptcy is irresponsible, IMO and orderly BK is more responsible that avoiding and illegally dodging creditors.

I did not get the idea that he was talking about hiding money or dodging creditors. Seems to me he was talking about not having those particular creditors at all.

Medmech · #23 08-12-2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75Sv1

OK, one spouse is responsilbe with money. The other racks up the CC debt. Since married, the responsible spouse is legally tied to the other spouses debt. I think the present BR rules were put in place due to defaults on CC. The CC and Banks were suppose to play fair. I haven't been stung by them, but it looks like others rates have skyrocketed. Also, gas prices going up, put a lot of home owners against the wall. I think that was the start of this recession.
Tom

The spouse is not responsible if they did not sign on to the debt especially before marriage, which leads me to the rest of the post which is almost entirely accurate IMO. CC companies, banks and collectors have built massive campaigns to teach us about how important your credit rating is and how evil the big BK is, at the same time they don’t live up to their own terms and conditions of loan agreements intentionally decrease credit limits to foul credit scores to unfairly raise rates or charge higher rates and fee’s to otherwise creditworthy borrowers.
Being in banking I am personally sickened by the way CC companies have been treating borrowers who have paid their bills, but decide to delay processing of payments, raising rates increasing fee’s and other practices that are soon to be banned. I also believe that these practices contributed to the economic downturn. When CC companies charge a derogatory fee or raise a rate some of us call and raise hell and the CC company waives the fee and lowers the rate but for the most part people take the hit and move on and the CC companies know that and that is why they do it.
If a person BK’s on them…good for them.

whunter · #24 08-12-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medmech

IIRC the thread is about consumer bankruptcy.

More data on topic:

bankruptcy forms
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us&q=bankruptcy+forms&aq=8&oq=bankruptcy&aqi=g10

bankruptcy
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us&q=bankruptcy&aq=0e&oq=bankruptc&aqi=g-e2g8

Medmech · #25 08-12-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt L

I did not get the idea that he was talking about hiding money or dodging creditors. Seems to me he was talking about not having those particular creditors at all.

Keeping your money with family members and not paying medical bills was not a dead give away? What more do you need?

Quote:

Medical issues can be dealt with as well, they can't take your money if you put it somewhere they cannot see it (a family member's or friend's account) etc...and, they cannot refuse treatment, that is illegal.

Medmech · #26 08-12-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

More data on topic:

bankruptcy forms
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us&q=bankruptcy+forms&aq=8&oq=bankruptcy&aqi=g10

bankruptcy
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us&q=bankruptcy&aq=0e&oq=bankruptc&aqi=g-e2g8

I know its not humorous but I do think is funny your from Michigan posting this I hear people talking about BK and foreclosures in line at the store, gas pumps, school..almost everywhere 1/2 of the state will be filing if something does not turn around soon.

Matt L · #27 08-12-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medmech

Keeping your money with family members and not paying medical bills was not a dead give away? What more do you need?

I see it now, in the previous message. I had missed it before.

Indeed, that does the job.

whunter · #28 08-13-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medmech

I know its not humorous but I do think is funny your from Michigan posting this I hear people talking about BK and foreclosures in line at the store, gas pumps, school..almost everywhere 1/2 of the state will be filing if something does not turn around soon.

Plantman · #29 09-07-2009, 08:48 PM

I have contemplated doing it for a couple of years now, but like MedMech, I made the effort to keep the banks happy and was actually making progess until I bought a property in Orlando, thinking I could flip it soon afterwards. Then the market bottomed out and I was left paying for a property I could not rent, when I did, I could only get half of what I was paying. Couple that with the economy tanking, clients cancelling, the ones that are still here are cutting back and mostly all the others have changed payment terms. That and my wife will make half of what she did last year.

I would never blame anyone but myself as I could have changed my spending habits, not bought the Orlando property and gotten rid of a couple of other financial drains along the way and I didn't. When the economy was humming along, I was easily paying my bills on time, had great credit, was paying almost 2500 per month towards my debt and actually had a plan to get out of it, then everything went south.

I should have prepared myself better, and I certainly am not proud of that. I am not proud of currently being enrolled in consumer credit, and undoubtedly unhappy about contemplating bankruptcy.

You can definitely count me as one of those people who thought things would never slow down. It will be an embarrassing, humbling day if and when I go down that route.

I actually have met with one atty regarding the issue and got that snake oil salesman feeling when I met him. He painted a pretty rosy picture. Get rid of this, get rid of that, you'll only have to pay back a portion of what you owe over several years, etc.....I will more than likely meet another one this week and make a decision.

Having said all that, I think that the laws exist to give people a fresh start. This is definitely a decision that should not be taken lightly. That's why it's taken me 3 years to get to this point, as I thought I could turn it around, but I am seeing that I can't and don't think I have too many more options.

One of my friends told me to look at it as a business decision to put yourself in a better financial place.

.02

Hatterasguy · #30 09-07-2009, 10:12 PM

I know a lot of people that have went through it, its not the end of the world.

Most people come back financialy stronger from a bankruptcy, at least that has been my experiance.

So hang in their!