Equal outcomes in social matters: pro life excesses - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #16 08-19-2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

It sorta amazes me how righties for whom the concept of equal outcomes in financial matters is anathema seem to think that equal outcomes can be had in personal matters. It would be nice if every child that came into the world was loved and wanted, especially if they are handicapped but sadly, it doesn’t work that way.

A child that could not pull its own weight and then some would become the object of scorn and abuse by its siblings and tribe-mates in short order.

I suggest those who denigrate anyone who decides to abort a deformed fetus put their money where their mouth is and volunteer or work (for low wages) at such a place.

If you want to hold the belief that each and every fertilized egg MUST be brought to full term and birth and that God frowns on any interruption of this, go for it. I find the practice of using abortion as a handy birth control method abhorrent myself and I’m not advocating that.

The fetus is not yet a human, not w/o full participation from the mother and I’m not sure we have the right, or the ability, to force such participation.

Bill O’Reilly will howl that this is aborting a child, late term, just because the mother is depressed.

Religious entities don't care. (Insert Deity Here) will fix it all for you. Either way, they want the herd enlarged and therefore their faith numbers. Otherwise what do you think is wrong with homosexuality? Gay sex = no offspring. No offspring = smaller herd. The math is pretty simple.

As it should be.

Advocacy. A dirty word. You go do what I say and we'll talk when the consequences hit the fan. In the meantime, I get my religious points.

Then let your deity do the work then. Or as you said, you can do the work for your deity. As to abortion, if the fetus is just a blob of cells, it is akin to removing a tumor. Now, at say 8 months where it is viable, that might be different.

And I am "not yet" a doctor. Therefore I cannot practice as one. Kinda like the girl that asked the wife if her BF could give her an enema. BF was a construction guy and had done some reading. I think you can guess the answer the wife gave them. Either way, as we all know, My house, my rules. This is the woman's body. If you are in my house and you don't like the rules, take a hike. I will tell who to go when I want.

When Bill or anyone wants to pay the bill, I'll be interested in what they have to say.

aklim · #17 08-19-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

As far as I know, the father has no legal voice in the abortion decision.
I've never hear any dicussion on the issue.

IIRC, there has been some legal issues with that. However, the question is whether the father is willing AND able to play host to the fetus should the woman decide not to.

cmac2012 · #18 08-20-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

X2 to a degree, but I believe the father should have some say on the abortion. It's also his child that's being terminated. He certainly gets hammered with child support when the mother decides against abortion. Shouldn't he be entitled to some say when the coin is flipped the other way around? Never hear about that scenerio, but I bet it happens everyday.

Some merit to that POV, IMO but the woman does more of the heavy lifting in giving birth. The father enjoys an orgasim and then it's all woman, excepting material support, which is worth a lot, but if the woman has jettisoned the father for whatever reason and is being supported elsewhere, it's mostly on her.

cmac2012 · #19 08-20-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannym

As a christian I don't believe in abortion. But I believe it's a personal choice and noone has the right to make that choice for someone else.
At times my wife works in the neonatal unit at the hospital and she see's baby's abandoned by their parents all the time. They become wards of the state. Usually for the rest of their lives. It's not a pretty picture to contemplate.
However I don't think it's OK to terminate pregnancy's on the basis of mental or physical condition at the time of birth. I don't think therer are many people who can be unselfish and see the whole picture to make such a decision.

On the other hand, I do think that women who get pregnant and can't afford to have children. I mean women who have children and bring them up on welfare. I believe they should be put on some kind of birth control after the first time. Whether by pill or operation, doesn't matter. They should only get one free bee.

Danny

I sorta agree, but oh man, people generally freak out at any mention of that. When I drove cab, I encountered hookers who spoke of their 4 or 5 children being raised by other people.

lietuviai · #20 08-20-2009, 10:28 PM

If a woman decides to have careless and casual sex, then she should accept the consequence she made and have the child. I feel that's the choice she made and that's the only choice she should have.
It's too bad it's so difficult to adopt a child here. Most end up wards of the state as was mentioned earlier. There are so many people who want to adopt children but because of the system in place it makes it very difficult to happen in this country. It's too bad that so many couples end up adopting children from other counties when there are so many children here who need a loving family.

aklim · #21 08-20-2009, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lietuviai

If a woman decides to have careless and casual sex, then she should accept the consequence she made and have the child.

As soon as it becomes alive, fair enough. Till then, it is a blob of cells. Take the tests used by doctors to declare death and reverse it. See what you get.

lietuviai · #22 08-20-2009, 11:35 PM

It's alive a soon as the egg is fertilized and it starts cell division.

Emmerich · #23 08-21-2009, 12:03 AM

With that logic, an ear of corn is alive too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lietuviai

It's alive a soon as the egg is fertilized and it starts cell division.

kknudson · #24 08-21-2009, 12:07 AM

The concept of when life begins is an argument no one will win.
Everyone has their own definition and / or opinion, don't waste board space on it.

I think the jist of this thread is who's choice is it, the parents or the government.

lietuviai · #25 08-21-2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmerich

With that logic, an ear of corn is alive too.

An ear of corn will never have the capacity to think.

With that logic it proves what a low regard we have for life in this country.

Ara T. · #26 08-21-2009, 12:13 AM

We have plenty of life in this country, how much more do we need.

lietuviai · #27 08-21-2009, 12:17 AM

So do you think it's OK to murder someone and think nothing of it?

cmac2012 · #28 08-21-2009, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lietuviai

It's alive a soon as the egg is fertilized and it starts cell division.

Of course it's alive. And it will not live on it's own without significant contribution by the mother, much of which is up to her to provide. Women have been aborting fetuse for thousands of years. Not pretty but how to stop it?

Ara T. · #29 08-21-2009, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lietuviai

So do you think it's OK to murder someone and think nothing of it?

Yes. I do it all the time with rusty coathangers in my basement.

BodhiBenz1987 · #30 08-21-2009, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

It sorta amazes me how righties for whom the concept of equal outcomes in financial matters is anathema seem to think that equal outcomes can be had in personal matters. It would be nice if every child that came into the world was loved and wanted, especially if they are handicapped but sadly, it doesn’t work that way.

Is anathema a word-of-the-month or something? One of our writers used it recently and I don't think I'd heard it in about five years prior to that.

Vocabulary coincidence aside ... I'm of the camp that believes financial and social "equality" is not practicable and is an airy self-confirming construction. I also am pro-life, so not all "righties" are righteous religious nuts. I grew up with a handicapped sister who's quite high-functioning, but, because of her involvement in programs and various groups, have had my eyes opened to other families and the incredible challenges they face, which begs any insightful mind to question whether they would have the courage to face that situation themselves. I don't disrespect someone who makes a choice not to bring a terribly handicapped child into the world. I cannot fathom the lives of some parents of the severely handicapped, much less the lives of the other children in their families. I believe it is their personal and private choice. (I do of course, also abhor the idea of using abortion as a last-minute method of birth control.)

But ... I do want to point out that not all Republicans are bible-thumping science-haters. I'm an agnostic, sociobiology-grounded Republican ... I may be rare, but I'm not totally alone.