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  #1  
Old 08-18-2009, 04:30 PM
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Interesting reading on health care

I know our right wing friends will dispute this but I still find it interesting.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/18/reinhardt.health.inflation/index.html
Here's another. This one shows what a fine job the insurance co's are doing.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/18/chemo.closet/index.html

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Last edited by Phil; 08-18-2009 at 05:34 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-18-2009, 05:05 PM
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These people are leading us over a cliff. The same crowd that led us over the cliff in Iraq are now once again telling us all to follow. Here is the simple truth: the US will not be able to compete with the emerging economic power houses of the world as long as we are distributing health care costs across our business base rather than what they do, which is to distribute these costs among the population as a whole. Every product we sell has direct health care costs built into it, while those of our international competitors do not. Germany is the best example. They have a heavily unionized high-cost work force, lots of so-called "socialism" and yet, they are beating our brains out competively and economically, and they have just now pulled in front of China as the largest exporters in the world. Why? Why is a country the size of Texas kicking our collective ass? The reason is simple: socialized health care costs. In fact, we are the only industrialized country without them. While every US car that rolls off the assembly line has $5,000 in healthcare costs built into them, every Volkswagen or Mercedes does not. We give them a huge headstart, and spot them that much when their cars arrive here, and they get to take the extra five grand home as profits for every car they sell. So do the Chinese and Japanese, and a host of other countries selling a host of other products. In their countries, our products languish on the shelves.

This entire thing is showing why this country is headed down the tubes. Our system of legalized bribery has negated democracy in this country. We are now ruled by campaign contributers, Talk Radio Screamers and lobbyists, a team of millionaires and billionaires that has become adept at disguising their narrow self-interest as "patriotic" as they talk the un-informed into doing things against their own best interest. As the linked article you posted states, they think "the employer pays my health care costs", when in fact the employer sees the employee as a total cost object, with added costs for healthcare merely distributed over the dollars that would have went to a higher pay check.

At this time I think what is really going on is that the Tea Bag Birthers were mobilized in order to provide political cover to the politicians, from both parties, who are getting paid off by the insurance monopolies to vote against any kind of health care reform, multi-national corporations who care more about insurance profits than they do the long-term welfare of the average citizens of the USA. The fact that is staring us all in the face is that 63% of the people voted for Barack Obama, whose top issue was this reform, are now about to be safely ignored while the losing side in the election gets to impose their views instead. Representative Democracy in America has failed, we are simply now living in a new kind of dictatorship based on cyber and AM Radio-based mob rule, mobs directed by the highest bidder. Caligua has finally appointed a horse as the consul of Rome.

Last edited by JollyRoger; 08-18-2009 at 05:25 PM.
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  #3  
Old 08-18-2009, 05:30 PM
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I hope the anti healthcare reformers have fat wallets.

The Milliman Medical Index stood at $8,414 in 2001. It had risen to $16,700 by 2009. It is likely to rise to $18,000 by next year. That is more than a doubling of costs in the span of a decade!
Since 2005, the index has grown at an average annual compound rate of 8.4 percent. Suppose we make it 8 percent for the coming decade. Then today's $16,700 will have grown to slightly over $36,000 by 2019.


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  #4  
Old 08-18-2009, 06:14 PM
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From the first article:
Quote:
Watching the angry outbursts at town hall meetings on health reform and the continuing public ambivalence about current efforts to reform our health system almost makes me wish that the reform effort fails.

Perhaps Americans need to be taught a basic lesson on the economics of employment-based health insurance before they will feel as smugly secure with it as they do now and before they will stop nitpicking health-reform efforts to death over this or that detail.
It's like I wrote it myself:
W.H. backs away from public option

How I wish there actually was an intelligent national debate on this topic.
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  #5  
Old 08-19-2009, 01:02 AM
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Here's my take

Health Coverage Reform NOT Health Care Reform

Jolly -
A few points, the US is the largest exporter in the world.
http://www.oecd.org/document/15/0,2340,en_2649_201185_35363023_1_1_1_1,00.html

53% voted for Barack

Health care costs wether paid by a business, or the government which then charges higher taxes still get built into the cost of goods.

Either way it's supposed to be a capitalistic society, keep the government out of it. Our politicians can't solve a problem unless it directly affects THEM.
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  #6  
Old 08-19-2009, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by DieselAddict View Post
How I wish there actually was an intelligent national debate on this topic.
There is intelligent debate, unfortunately it's a one party conversation.
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  #7  
Old 08-19-2009, 12:35 PM
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I was trying to find this yesterday, very interesting
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Weekend/story?id=8337500&page=1
and
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Health/story?id=7911195&page=1
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  #8  
Old 08-19-2009, 12:46 PM
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Jolly,
Why do you continue with the myth that HC was the central issue for BO's campaign.
You, yourself made it quite obvious that the campaign was to run against Geo. Bush. So there is no political mandate for HC.
If you think that anyone could actually "organize" the political opposition to nationaL HC, I think you greatly overestimate the abilities of the organizers. Could it be, that inspite of some opportunists wanting to disrupt the HC reform, that the majority of Americans simply do not want it in the form it is being offered? Is that possible?
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  #9  
Old 08-19-2009, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kknudson View Post
Here's my take

Health Coverage Reform NOT Health Care Reform

Jolly -
A few points, the US is the largest exporter in the world.
http://www.oecd.org/document/15/0,2340,en_2649_201185_35363023_1_1_1_1,00.html
Dude, could you take a closer look at what you are posting? The link you posted is dated 2005. Here's like, 2007, and its done nothng but get even worse since then:

http://www.people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/eng/ch5en/conc5en/leadingtraders.html

Get the picture?




Quote:

53% voted for Barack
Health care costs wether paid by a business, or the government which then charges higher taxes still get built into the cost of goods.
Of course they do, but when charged directly to the business, they get charged directly to the consumer. Right now we are getting the worst of both worlds.



Quote:
Either way it's supposed to be a capitalistic society, keep the government out of it. Our politicians can't solve a problem unless it directly affects THEM.
So we should take all the old people off of SSI and Medicare?
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  #10  
Old 08-19-2009, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
Jolly,
Why do you continue with the myth that HC was the central issue for BO's campaign.
You, yourself made it quite obvious that the campaign was to run against Geo. Bush. So there is no political mandate for HC.
If you think that anyone could actually "organize" the political opposition to nationaL HC, I think you greatly overestimate the abilities of the organizers. Could it be, that inspite of some opportunists wanting to disrupt the HC reform, that the majority of Americans simply do not want it in the form it is being offered? Is that possible?
Sure, myth.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108331/obama-has-edge-key-election-issues.aspx
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  #11  
Old 08-19-2009, 03:21 PM
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I got a kick out of reading about one moron at a health care town hall meeting who was yelling at the congressman to keep his "government hands off my Medicare". I assume everyone here sees the irony and ignorance in that statement.
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  #12  
Old 08-19-2009, 03:27 PM
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Insurance companies suck, and alas, so does the alternative by letting the gubbmint run it....
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  #13  
Old 08-19-2009, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by DieselAddict View Post
I got a kick out of reading about one moron at a health care town hall meeting who was yelling at the congressman to keep his "government hands off my Medicare". I assume everyone here sees the irony and ignorance in that statement.
That just proves how ignorant people are. I am continuously astonished by how little so many people in this country are aware of....its a huge part of the bigger issue. In Germany, people know things, everyone knows things. Here, people don't have a clue, so things get twisted and blown into lies and hearsay......and it leads to things not working as they should.
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  #14  
Old 08-20-2009, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
Jolly,
Why do you continue with the myth that HC was the central issue for BO's campaign.
You, yourself made it quite obvious that the campaign was to run against Geo. Bush. So there is no political mandate for HC.
If you think that anyone could actually "organize" the political opposition to nationaL HC, I think you greatly overestimate the abilities of the organizers. Could it be, that inspite of some opportunists wanting to disrupt the HC reform, that the majority of Americans simply do not want it in the form it is being offered? Is that possible?
Your post shows how well the oposition to healthcare reform can organize, and brainwash people.

29% of people in the United States allready have government health plans of one kind or another

http://www.gallup.com/video/121967/Government-Healthcare-Covers-Insured-Americans.aspx

-------------------------

July 14, 2009

Majority in U.S. Favors Healthcare Reform This Year

Controlling costs a higher priority than expanding coverage

by Jeffrey M. Jones


PRINCETON, NJ -- As U.S. House leaders unveil a plan to reform the U.S. healthcare system, a USA Today/Gallup poll finds 56% of Americans in favor and 33% opposed to Congress' passing major healthcare reform legislation this year. Support for healthcare reform before the end of the year is sharply split along party lines, with 79% of Democrats in favor, compared with only 23% of Republicans.

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  #15  
Old 08-20-2009, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by pawoSD View Post
That just proves how ignorant people are. I am continuously astonished by how little so many people in this country are aware of....its a huge part of the bigger issue. In Germany, people know things, everyone knows things. Here, people don't have a clue, so things get twisted and blown into lies and hearsay......and it leads to things not working as they should.
we have a dumbed down, CNN programmed populace. keep the people stupid and you can sell 'em anything. since people in this country aren't aware of what the REAL issues are they keep slinging mud at each other. it's the old "divide and conquer" plan. as long as the government can keep people pointing the fingers at each other, they will never figure out who the real culprit is. and in this, the real culprit is the Medical Health Insurance companies. they've managed to get the rules written to their advantage. try suing one and you will get a quick lesson as to who has the upper hand.

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