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  #1  
Old 08-26-2009, 11:44 AM
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Healthcare insurance priorities

This is not a scientific poll, just my own observations. Near where I live there are a couple of trailer parks. Every one of the trailers has a satellite dish on it. Most of them have a late model truck or SUV with fancy rims on them parked in front. As I have done repairs on a good portion of them I have seen the inside, and most have big screen TV's and a X-box or 2. There is also a large amount of Obama paraphernalia-bumper stickers, posters etc. The ones that I have talked to all say the same thing-I can't afford health insurance, and I voted for Obama because he is going to make it free. Even one of my good friends who has a lot of expensive toys and takes nice vacations often said the same thing. Same with my sister. My newest vehicle is 10 years old. I don't have satellite or cable TV. The vacations for my family have been pretty scarce lately. We have had to cut back on a lot of luxuries, But I STILL HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE! I wonder how many of the supposed 47 million who don't have insurance could actually afford it if they made it a PRIORITY. Cars, electronic gadgets, fancy clothes, vacations etc. are not necessities. Maybe before the govt. gives someone free healthcare they should do an audit on their assets and habits. If you smoke , drink, or use drugs you are automatically disqualified. You must give all your unnecessary assets to the govt. to sell off to help offset the cost. You must be a LEGAL citizen of the U S. I bet that would cut that 47 million down quite a bit.
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Old 08-26-2009, 11:50 AM
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I get it, a "class warfare" thread. Curse those poor people, how dare they be poor!

Perhaps a trip into the real world might help. Currently, if you are a 50 yr old self-employed person with a pre-existing condition, a guy on Death Row has better health insurance then you would if it was you. What do you think about that?

Also, there is nothing "free" in this bill. Anyone who signs for the public option agrees to allow the government to attach either their paychecks or their income tax return for any owed premium payments, and when not working, one pays his insurance premiums with "credits" that must later be paid.

Ultimately though, we need to look at society as it now exists:

Veteran? A government run sliding-scale healthcare system. Fine by the insurance companies too, veterans generally have catastrophic or chronic health problems that they ain't going to make any money on, so the insurance companies don't want them and were glad to pawn them off on Uncle Sugar.

Retired? A government run sliding-scale healthcare system. Fine by the insurance companies too, oldsters generally have catastrophic or chronic health problems too that they ain't going to make any money on, and once again, the insurance companies don't want them and were glad to pawn them off on Uncle Sugar once again....

A low income kid? A government run sliding-scale healthcare system. Fine by the insurance companies too, kids don't have jobs, they ain't going to make any money on them either, so they don't want them.

A government employee? A government run sliding-scale healthcare system that I haven't heard of any enmass-exit by Republicans from, in fact, we don't hear old people, poor people with kids, or veterans screaming to be released from that evil old public care do we? But.....

A middle class chump? Hey, you got the bucks, let's a have a system where my profits are based on you getting screwed! That's what we have today, and you say it's better? The insurance company got rid of all the risk pools as the years went by, and increased your costs by triple, soon to be four fold and more, while consuming 15-18% of the GNP while other nations only average 8% GNP - trillons in money going to marketing, corporate jets, fat CEO salries, waste and profits. Curse those trailer park people!

The real problem isn't poverty, it's greed. A public option would cause the fat and lazy insurance companies in our rigged health care system to compete with a low cost provider and give those trailer park people a place to go for insurance they can afford instead of the ER where the real cost ends up on the backs of local taxpayers, and the greedy will stop at nothing to stop it.

Last edited by JollyRoger; 08-26-2009 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 08-26-2009, 11:55 AM
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I am with you on the big-screen TV thing. I wish I knew how those people could be educated and/or shamed into realizing that they don't need that stuff. On the other hand, I also know a few uninsured people who are working multiple jobs, driving lousy old cars, and generally going without.
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Old 08-26-2009, 12:17 PM
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Well, an Xbox is worth 3 stitches. I guess they could always sell it if they get a minor cut. If they need an MRI, the tv covers that, but then they'll have to hope nothing is found.
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Old 08-26-2009, 12:20 PM
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The reverse is true, they can get a new trailer for a kidney.
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Old 08-26-2009, 05:28 PM
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I think a lot of people who don't have health insurance don't want it because (a) they're young and taking the gamble that nothing will happen to them, and (b) they just don't want to find a way to pay for it because they don't think they're going to need it. I hate insurance too, but I pay for it.
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
Exactly.

I'm curious to know how many critics of health care reform have health insurance paid for by the employer and are part of the large risk pool provided by the employer.

These people have no standing in shouting down reform in this industry. They have the best possible scenario whereby any visit to any doctor is covered and they can't be dropped unless they lose the job.

And they have the temerity to criticize others in far more tenuous circumstances............including myself.
You've owned up to 11 houses at a time (making by your own admission 1000% ROI over 20 years), are a qualified engineer, have what, three Mercedes and 735i and you are telling folks you are poor?
The OP is saying what I've said many times- the poor do not understand economics as well as the rich: buying big rims for a car and a large flat screen instead of health insurance is a prime example of the economic stupidity we are dealing with in the USA, and now they want me and my kids to pay for that stupidity. And you agree with those rim buying flat screen short sighted idiots and even go so far as to say you are one of them?
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
My tenuous circumstances are not economic. As a person without a group, I'm unable to get the highly coveted plans that many folks who have the groups benefit from. I'm not free to choose any doctor in the US if I have a serious issue...........forced to accept with the insurance company offers and is willing to pay.

Of course the poor don't understand economics............that's obvious in most cases............their priorities are misplaced.
So how do we as a nation differentiate between you and those that buy big rims and flat screens in this new plan? I certainly do not want my or my kids money to be used to buy those things instead of health care, but if the dumbass buys those instead of health care and then gets free health care that means I am paying for those things. That certainly give standing to those people saying "NO" loudly. It's a sad fact of life that a certain percentage of people are stupid and will do stupid things. So be it, I nor anyone can change that. Others should not be forced to pay for that stupidity however.
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MTUpower View Post
So how do we as a nation differentiate between you and those that buy big rims and flat screens in this new plan? I certainly do not want my or my kids money to be used to buy those things instead of health care, but if the dumbass buys those instead of health care and then gets free health care that means I am paying for those things. That certainly give standing to those people saying "NO" loudly. It's a sad fact of life that a certain percentage of people are stupid and will do stupid things. So be it, I nor anyone can change that. Others should not be forced to pay for that stupidity however.
Can you show me where the new plan grants free health care to dumbasses who buy flat screen TV's?
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:56 AM
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I don't understand what the evil in flat screen tvs and rims is. First, you assume they weren't purchased with savings. Second, as I pointed out already, the money spent on them would cover one for maybe 2 or 3 months.
And if you think for a minute that there aren't rich or middle class people living beyond their means, you're either new to this country or crazy. From one end to the other our society is debt ridden, credit card laden, and overstuffed. It's one flat screen for the poor and it's one flat screen in the family room, bedroom, and maybe kid's room for the middle class, and it's one flat screen for every room and bathroom for the rich. It appears the majority of the American population doesn't understand economics.




If you have health insurance, you already pay for others' stupidity. Some idiot also getting health insurance from the same company as you can stick his head in a microwave, get cancer, and you pay for it. That's private insurance. The only difference is in how you (your employer) pay. Cut a check, or pay a tax. Either way you don't have the money, and it goes to taking care of someone else.
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:18 AM
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X2 to JR post and to tankdriver's post
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
My tenuous circumstances are not economic. As a person without a group, I'm unable to get the highly coveted plans that many folks who have the groups benefit from. I'm not free to choose any doctor in the US if I have a serious issue...........forced to accept with the insurance company offers and is willing to pay.

Of course the poor don't understand economics............that's obvious in most cases............their priorities are misplaced.
If you chose to exist in a condition outside a group, then it is your responsibility. you seem to be an entrepenour, which as you know means "risk taker'. don't complain to us about your situation when it seems you chose to live in it. Perhaps H/C can be changed, but the majority of the country that has health care and can afford it, doesnt want the change done on their back and out of their pocket just because of choices, poor or otherwise, made by the un and under insured.
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
If you chose to exist in a condition outside a group, then it is your responsibility. you seem to be an entrepenour, which as you know means "risk taker'. don't complain to us about your situation when it seems you chose to live in it. Perhaps H/C can be changed, but the majority of the country that has health care and can afford it, doesnt want the change done on their back and out of their pocket just because of choices, poor or otherwise, made by the un and under insured.
But as tankdriver has pointed out so nicely even with insurance you pay for people who make poor choices (people who smoke, drink, are morbidly obese, don't follow doctors orders ect)
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  #14  
Old 08-27-2009, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
Can you show me where the new plan grants free health care to dumbasses who buy flat screen TV's?
that was not my point. I don't care what people do with their lives or their monies. just don't ask me to help pay for their lives
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  #15  
Old 08-27-2009, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
Yes, I very well understand your philosophy.

It's easily summarized in: "It sucks to be you".

You should use it each and every time you feel the need to convince others that you don't want to help them in any way, shape, or form.
I help people, I contribute to charity, do volunteer work. what I oppose, is government mandated directives to do so. the point on health care is that so many in the US are satisfied with what they have. Could it be better? most certainly, but at what cost? why completely revamp a system by putting in the hands of elected officials who prove over and over again that they cannot be trusted to be accountable to the will of the people?
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