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5 myths about other countries' health care
Thanks cmac for providing a link to this in another thread. I feel this is so important that it warrants a separate thread. This article was written by the same guy who contributed to the Sick Around the World Frontline documentary about other countries' health care systems that I saw in the last couple years and found very educational (more than anything in the commercial media or on this forum). The online documentary can be seen here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/ And the article here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR2009082101778.html Quote:
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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual) Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL |
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ask the doctors in those countries how they feel about it, and the future of those doctors. the report I saw was that in Germany for instance, the doctors make little more than an engineer, yet have 2X the education. they have gone on strike many. many times for higher wages and many are moving out of Germany. Frances healthcare system is only a few years away from total financial collapse. It would be nice if someone would do a non partisan appraisal rather than one that supports their agenda
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1982 300CD Turbo (Otis, "ups & downs") parts for sale 2003 TJ with Hemi (to go anywhere, quickly) sold 2001 Excursion Powerstroke (to go dependably) 1970 Mustang 428SCJ (to go fast) 1962 Corvette LS1 (to go in style) 2001 Schwinn Grape Krate 10spd (if all else fails) |
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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual) Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL |
#4
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This viewpoint should open a few eyes. Basically if you can eliminate the built in usage or profit motive.Your overall system should improve over time. It has always been immoral for third parties to profit from sick people. Yet thats pretty well exactly what is going on.
Otherwise greed may come to almost totally dominate at the average patients cost. Think about it. You pay insurance premiums to a private enterprise that struggles to deny you care when required if possible. Without telling you up front that it is their practice to do so. Sounds like fraud to me. Legally they can pull it off yet that does not change the reality. As for quality of care it might even improve over time. Under our system in Canada everyone seems to recieve about equal medical service. There was an initial period of adjustment I admit freely. Now the population would not consider undoing the present system I believe. You can eventually almost go broke trying to sustain what exists in the United States now. If the cost of drugs becomes too punative that is also taken care of here depending on your income and other factors one way or another. Next to be tackled is your bloated prescription drug industry. The prices you pay almost seem insane. I never brought into the argument all this profit is required for research. I am well aware research costs money. No research can cost that much. What are we talking here hundreds of billions of dollars a year? Perhaps over time a form of brainwashing has evolved. You have to get rid of the third parties before they become so powerful you cannot do it. I hope that senario already does not exist. The private health care provider companies can and will try to ensure their survival at any cost. It is too good for them presently to do otherwise in my opinion. Politically they control much already. If they control enough is yet to be seen. If it turns out they do you cannot get rid of them in my opinion. So all the current discussions would be just academic in nature. Last edited by barry123400; 08-25-2009 at 09:41 PM. |
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Thanks for posting that.
I'm curious as to how that $7000 per yr average for US healthcare costs is calculated. I spend $13200 per yr in health insurance premiums alone. That doesn't include any visits to the doctor or hospital, nor does it include prescriptions. Now that's for 2 adults and 1 child. But the cost would be the same for 2 adults. The costs for sick people have to be substantially higher. It costs me $25 to visit a doctor, $50 for urgent care, $200 for the ER and $700 for the hospital. Those numbers can add up fast.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08 1985 300TD 185k+ 1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03 1985 409d 65k--sold 06 1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car 1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11 1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper 1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4 1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13 |
#6
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but if the doctors quit, does it matter. there is no perfect system, but at least the system we have rewards doctors for hard work and doesnt marginalize their efforts by mandating a pay ceiling far below what should be commanded by their education. what I truly would like to see is a simplification of the current system's paperwork. I saw a report where a doctor had 100 patients and had to have a staff of 8 to maintain the insurance paperwork. thats just rediculous. her take home was on the order of 70-80K by the time she paid staff, and then insurance for malpractice takes a big chunk of that. to be honest I think the US is driving our best and brightest into the practice of law rather than medicine
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1982 300CD Turbo (Otis, "ups & downs") parts for sale 2003 TJ with Hemi (to go anywhere, quickly) sold 2001 Excursion Powerstroke (to go dependably) 1970 Mustang 428SCJ (to go fast) 1962 Corvette LS1 (to go in style) 2001 Schwinn Grape Krate 10spd (if all else fails) |
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How is it paid for?
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- Brian 1989 500SEL Euro 1966 250SE Cabriolet 1958 BMW Isetta 600 |
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According to the K-1, I pay $7440/year in premiums for a family of 5 for 'blue chip' coverage with a low deductible and an almost always waived copay. I paid about $500 more a month when I carried it on my own business vs. my wife's large member firm group policy for the same coverage. |
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Very few doctors get anywhere near as rich as most health insurance CEOs and their lieutenants.
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1986 300SDL, 362K 1984 300D, 138K |
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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual) Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL Last edited by DieselAddict; 08-26-2009 at 02:51 AM. |
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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual) Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL |
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That's great- I guess Maine ought to try those systems then, and everybody in Obama's camp ought to study that first.
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it is an arguement against my point of compensation, but it is only for general practitioners. Hospitals and collectives share the resources so if they partner up they can still make very good money here, and they are not capped.. My point was that all of them have this huge overhead cost in terms of insurance paperwork. if they could simplify that it would help bring down the average costs of care. when my wife came from Mexico she had no insurance here every doctor we visited cut the price 30% for a cash deal. this says to me the true costs of dealing with insurance, Im guessing 30% just scratches the surface.
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1982 300CD Turbo (Otis, "ups & downs") parts for sale 2003 TJ with Hemi (to go anywhere, quickly) sold 2001 Excursion Powerstroke (to go dependably) 1970 Mustang 428SCJ (to go fast) 1962 Corvette LS1 (to go in style) 2001 Schwinn Grape Krate 10spd (if all else fails) |
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Wife is a physician, now practicing in Ontario. The waiting time aspect of Canadian healthcare has been exaggerrated by the media. You'd think people were lying on the street, gasping for breath as they await a vital organ transplant. There are waits for non-essential services, but the issue is already being addressed, and with costs of medical equipment, technicians, operating costs, etc. increasing, there will be waits for non-essential services. A small price to pay for getting top-tier care when you need it most. Another aspect that has not been mentioned AFAIK is that being a doctor in Canada is one of, if not the, most secure high-paid job you can have. This is a significant factor that is often underlooked, IMO. You will be essentially guaranteed a life-long job, with a secure salary. This greatly facilitates long term estate planning and retirement. It also means that towards the latter half of a physician's career the money starts to add up fast. At the start there are mortgages, cars and medical school bills, yes, and you hear all about that in the media. Reality is that they get paid off relatively quickly with some diligence. We recently met with our financial advisor (offered 'free' of charge through the CMA, of which doctors are members and pay dues) and she was telling us how many doctors, as early as their mid/late 40s, are socking away $10,000+ a month. They've paid off their main debts at that point and they put the money into their corporation (many doctors are incorporated). So with some wise money management, many doctors will retire as multi-millionaires. Is there really much to complain about? Not IMHO.
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Chris 2007 E550 4Matic - 61,000 Km - Iridium Silver, black leather, Sport package, Premium 2 package 2007 GL450 4Matic - 62,000 Km - Obsidian Black Metallic, black leather, all options 1998 E430 - sold 1989 300E - 333,000 Km - sold 1977 280E - sold 1971 250 - retired "And a frign hat. They gave me a hat at the annual benefits meeting. I said. how does this benefit me. I dont have anything from the company.. So they gave me a hat." - TheDon |
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I would like a plan similar to the one in Germany where they would allow competition between companies on a NATIONAL scale. The current half @ssed system we have stops companies from crossing state lines. If you could choose between 200 national companies that would be great.
I also like the idea of putting everybody into a single pool or group for each company. If we spread the risks out among say 1.5 million people who use BC/BS of NY instead of the 34 employees in your company the costs SHOULD go down. As far as a public option, take the Medicare/Medicaid people and let them choose a new company while keeping their premiums the same. For people without insurance, have a low cost option available. Again, if the risk is spread over millions of paying customers, the cost per policy should be very small. If you do not WANT insurance, then you do not have to to have it, however, you WILL be on the hook for any bills you accrue. No more passing the cost along to the taxpayers.
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"I have no convictions ... I blow with the wind, and the prevailing wind happens to be from Vichy" Current Monika '74 450 SL BrownHilda '79 280SL FoxyCleopatra '99 Chevy Suburban Scarlett 2014 Jeep Cherokee Krystal 2004 Volvo S60 Gone '74 Jeep CJ5 '97 Jeep ZJ Laredo Rudolf ‘86 300SDL Bruno '81 300SD Fritzi '84 BMW '92 Subaru '96 Impala SS '71 Buick GS conv '67 GTO conv '63 Corvair conv '57 Nomad |
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