Hybrids, Electric Cars and Li Batteries - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kknudson · #1 08-31-2009, 06:10 PM

This echos a better article I read recently in Forbes, that stated that if we started mass producing cars (I believe they referenced 4 to 5 million vehicle / year) requiring Li batteries we would exhaust the world supply in several years.

http://www.smartplanet.com/technology/blog/thinking-tech/lithium-the-new-oil/1228/

More importantly it touches the basic fact, energy no matter how produced requires some use of earths resources.

Just FYI

Hatterasguy · #2 08-31-2009, 07:22 PM

People don't like to look at the big picture.

I still think we should use more diesels in this country. With no trade off those shyt box's on the road can go from mid teens to low 20's.

kknudson · #3 08-31-2009, 07:36 PM

I don't agree Diesels are the END solution, but definitely one of the better transitions solutions.
No matter what the END solution is it will be 10 or maybe 20 years before it takes over, 30 if the government keeps sticking their fingers in the process.
I also feel Biodiesels holds much more potential than ethanol ( a true government boondoggle), although I fell (hope) a good bio fuel can be produced.

Here's my question
Years ago, 10 or 15 and before clean diesel, I knew a guy who ran a refinery. He was a big diesel proponent even back then.
His thing was compared to the production of gasoline, the yield per barrel of diesel, and the energy required to crack, was significantly less than the equivalent for gasoline.
I know refineries can tweak how much of each of the various products are produced per barrel. As I recall he said if they went best diesel versus best gasoline the yield was 20%+ better and the energy use was almost 20% less.

Anyone support, correct or update his statements, or maybe my memory.

tankdriver · #4 08-31-2009, 08:22 PM

Diesel is definitely the common sense approach. Both because of its efficiency and its bio-diesel form. Another fuel to reconsider is alcohol. Cars used to run on alcohol before the Rockefeller inspired Prohibition, race cars can run on alcohol, ethanol is a form of alcohol, and there's no reason we can't run it with minimal adaptation of current technology.

Like other energy issues, I don't think this one will be fixed by one replacement.

Hatterasguy · #5 08-31-2009, 08:32 PM

Let me put it this way, diesel is something we have now that we can impliment and see major changes in 5 years. If we decided to force the issue, most likely through government intervention.

Going from say 15mpg to 22mpg is a big jump, and its essentialy free since we already have the technoligy, just chose not to use it.

kknudson · #6 08-31-2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Let me put it this way, diesel is something we have now that we can impliment and see major changes in 5 years. If we decided to force the issue, most likely through government intervention.

Going from say 15mpg to 22mpg is a big jump, and its essentialy free since we already have the technoligy, just chose not to use it.

Yes, that is why I said it is one of the better interim solutions but I think Long term, 20 years out, there has to be a better solution. Not necessarily IS though.

PS, while for many reason I feel the cash for clunkers was another government boondoggle, IF the number I heard was correct the average mpg was 15.? to 25+ mpg. So again, IF true, that was a decent savings.
Although us taxpayers paid dearly for that savings.

MS Fowler · #7 08-31-2009, 09:24 PM

I prefer the problems of diesels to say, pressurized bottles of hydrogen running all around the planet.

kknudson · #8 08-31-2009, 09:43 PM

You mean you don't want cars that really blow up like on TV and in the movies.

Note I'm not a fan of Hydrogen for auto's either.

compress ignite · #9 09-01-2009, 01:07 AM

Take much more of the planet's resources and energy than they deliver...
Seagrams would "Own You" instead of Exxon/Mobil.

compress ignite · #10 09-01-2009, 01:08 AM

Take much more of the planet's resources and energy than they deliver...
[I.E. they are a Negative Energy Producer.]
Seagrams would "Own You" instead of Exxon/Mobil.

PaulC · #11 09-01-2009, 01:10 AM

I was always a fan of the concept of nuclear-powered vehicles...

R Leo · #12 09-01-2009, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulC

I was always a fan of the concept of nuclear-powered vehicles...

...gives the term 'hot rod' a whole new meaning!

t walgamuth · #13 09-01-2009, 05:59 AM

I just want some small nuclear tipped devices to mount under my bumper for those infernal left lane bandits!

LUVMBDiesels · #14 09-01-2009, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulC

I was always a fan of the concept of nuclear-powered vehicles...

"I'm sure that in 1985 plutonium is available in every corner drugstore, but in 1955 it's a little hard to come by. "

If only...

732002 · #15 09-01-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

People don't like to look at the big picture.

I still think we should use more diesels in this country. With no trade off those shyt box's on the road can go from mid teens to low 20's.

Isn't there a practical limit to how much diesel you can get from oil?
Refine oil and you get light natural gas all the way to heavy tar.