IF any of you knew history at all the first WW1 was not over to the German people

the powers to be were calling for vindication and the masses rally ed

had he not split his army in 3 parts the world would not see America for what is is today - we are just lucky it was fought than and not NOW with the who we have in the white house

as it is you might want to brush up on you Arabic just in case someone really pushes

Talking aint going to cut it -- BTW -- jz

Yes I am, are you?

The Western powers preferred a Soviet dictatorship in control of Central Europe to a German one. If my conclusion is so outrageous, why don't you answer the following question in a way that avoids that conclusion:

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1983 300D

I agree that PB's "analysis" is, shall we say, "fanciful", but where does he make any statement that Hitler wasn't such a bad guy? I don't see any moral evaluation in his comments.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

England and France both were and are much less populated than Germany. France and England both for all practical purposes lost two generations of young men in WW1. Neither were looking for a war. Churchill kept putting off the Normandy invasion (overlord, I believe it was called before they had decided where it was) because he did not want to get into a huge land war and lose more men. He delayed and proposed to the Allies various plans other than overlord to try to wear the Germans down and avoid loss to England.

Attack another huge land power in their own backyard? Ridiculous to even consider. With Germany alone England and France had more than they wanted.

Luckily Hitler attacked Russia for us and brought them into the war.

Our enemy's enemy is our friend, and so we helped Russia so we could fight a much smaller portion of Germany's powerful army.

Russia had enormous reserves of men and spent them lavishly to defeat the Germans, losing perhaps as much as 20 million on the Eastern Front. We had enormous industrial capacity and supplied them with Airplanes, Studebaker trucks (the huge 6x6 Studebaker was so loved by the Russians that they produced a virtual carbon copy of it until the 1980's) and other armaments.

Hitler at his height was too powerful to allow to remain but too weak to defeat the array of western powers and Russia.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I'll concede my naivete. I thought a man who didn't want to conquer the world was a better man than someone who did.

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
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1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
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1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
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this is a frightening bit of revisionist history being propounded.

but it is not surprising; the Vatcian cooperated with nazis, so did prescottt bush and many other right wing businessmen (brown brothers- harriman, standard oil, alcoa, and more.)

good old pat would gladly opt for a fascistic christian/catholic state ( look ma, no jews, pinkos etc) vs. a "godless" communist state. personally, i'll pass on both; while pat seems just a little too eager to jump to the fuhrer's defense.

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"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

The western powers didn't prefer any dictatorship in control of central europe. They did not declare war on the Soviets because they were not in any position to engage in a war against the USSR. They were hardly in a position to deal with Hitler's Germany allied with Mussolini's Italy. They did kick the USSR out of the League of Nations, which is about as toothless as you can get, but it is a stomping foot reaction.

The idea that war was foisted on Hitler is bizarrely ludicrous. He invaded Austria. He invaded Czechoslovakia. He repudiated the Treaty of Versailles. He had SS troops disguise themselves as Poles and attack Germany as pretext. He demanded Danzig and eventually invaded Poland. Where could anyone possibly get the idea that the allies made him do it?

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1984 300TD

"Why did Hitler not demand France's fleet?"

Moron. The french fleet was commanded by Vichy (the pro German puppet government). It was not known by the allies whether the french fleet would attack the british and american fleet. And so the French fleet which was massed in the Medditeranian was shelled and sank by the allies.

Did you ever hear of any French fleet fighting in WW2? That's why. It was lying in the Medditeranian.

For more information look in Wikipedia under operation Catapult.

The sinking of the French fleet was carried out under direct orders from Churchill. The British Navy leaders felt it was a huge political mistake but in fact it convinced the US that the British would not fold under to Hitler.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Yes, but not with France and the Brits right away. With the Soveits yes, absolutly that had been his policy since the 20's.

Having studied WW2 I find this artical about on the same level as that movie inglorious bastards thats out now.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

No offense but thats total and utter BS, Chruchill stated the exact opposite. Sadly our government was MIA at a very crucial time when we could have forced the Soviets back, because Roosevelt died.

No one wanted the Soviets in central Europe, but they had the army's and thats kind of how things fell when the dust settled.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

They had no need to fear the French fleet.

You have to understand Hitlers views on military matters. They were strictly continental. He had no design, or view on areas of operation outside of continental Europe. He was not a great military or strategic thinker, just a very good politician. If he did he would have invaded North Afrika before the USSR as many of his top generals wanted him to. Hitler only looked east, to Russia.

His generals argued and in fact it would have been a very simple matter to push the British out of North Afrika with a very small force right after the fall of France. Look at what Rommal did with hardly anything, imagin if Rommal had half a dozen fully equiped and supplied panzer divisions? He would have rolled eight into Egypt, captured the Suez Canal, and than rolled into lightly defended and pro Nazi Iran and Iraq.

In one stroke the British would have been knocked out of the war, or at the very least unable to engage the Germans on the ground anywhere. Lost the Med and and the vast oil reserves in the Middle East.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Our government had no choice about the area that Russian armies occupied. The russians had something like 130 divisions to our six or ten or 20. We could not have beaten them in any way except to nuke them (which was not an option at that time, thank God).

Our government was not MIA it just had no inclination to suicide, and the people of the US wanted their boys back.

Saying that Trueman was weak at Potsdam is revisionist Republican BS.

Sorry.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I'm not saying Truman was weak, I'm saying in Roosevelts dieing weeks he wasn't as abrest of things as he should have been. Truman was also never breifed all along, he was thrown into the situation cold.

What I'm saying is a transfer of power happend at a very bad time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_divisions_during_World_War_II

I have no idea where your division count came from but we had one hundred, now add up the British and French and see how the balance of power looked.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I suppose you've heard of Yalta?

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1983 300D

Our government was not MIA. It would've been criminally stupid to engage the Russians while still engaged in the Pacific. We were barely able to keep them out of entering the Pac war when they were our allies. Doing something about central europe's occupation would've guaranteed two enemies to fight in the Pacific theater.

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1984 300TD