State of Education in US compared to other nations - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #31 09-10-2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

Motivation is key.

That's why I don't understand the conservative hysteria about letting Obama talk to kids about staying in school. That's just pure stupidity.

That is the real issue. There is no motivation.

Do you really think that will do squat? I don't.

aklim · #32 09-10-2009, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by okyoureabeast

It appears you've lived a blessed life awarded from hard work.

However, the very social programs you are attacking are incredibly important social nets. The money that those "single mothers" who keep popping out babies get is barely enough to support an existence.

Your ignorance of people's misfortunes is terrifying. I hope you never experience any problems that were out of your control and you must rely on the very social programs you're attacking.

Disclaimer: I have previously volunteered to help battered and abused women.

Appearances can be deceiving. I have been on many different ends. Some things have worked out and some have not. Sometimes, no matter how hard I work, things just spiral out of control. However, more often than not, hard work seems to produce results. Again, not always.

Important to whom? Certainly not me. I don't care how much it barely is or is not. If I was not responsible for the pregnancy, how is it my concern?

Ignorance? How so? Are you saying that I never experienced misfortune? If so, you must be viewing a different person than the one I saw in the bathroom mirror a few minutes ago. Why would you hope that I never experience a situation out of my control? Oh, I get it. I see how it works. I see the dealer have an ace so I should buy insurance in case he has a blackjack. In your case, you think that you might have such an incident or two so you think that you might "help others out" and in so doing buy insurance for your possible misfortune. And people say I am selfish. Sorry, I don't make decisions based on whether I might be in that bad position. You might. I make decisions based on whether I think it makes sense or not.

And I have been a volunteer Asst Mgr for the Ronnald McDonnald house. BFD.

aklim · #33 09-10-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymr

Most 10 year old kids do not make the connection between themselves and their schoolwork, and the homeless bums they might see. The lesson usually hits them in the head well after school ends, and they realize the opportunity they have squandered.

The Asian parents around here push their kids pretty hard, but they are not so involved in PTA and things not directly to do with learning.

I don't know about you but I realized those things at those ages. Of course, the fact that we were constantly warned by the sights and the parents must have helped.

And the kids do better WITHOUT the fluff. Interesting.

pj67coll · #34 09-10-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymr

The Asian parents around here push their kids pretty hard, but they are not so involved in PTA and things not directly to do with learning.

And schools have exactly what do do with things other than learning?

- Peter.

Kuan · #35 09-10-2009, 10:20 PM

At the collegiate level US students compare just as well with others. It's not what you know when you're 11 years old, it's how you use your knowledge when you get out. Most kids manage fine after they learn how to learn. Once you know how to learn you pick things up really quick.

Anecdotal observations: I taught a logic section in CC back in the early 90's, and although I didn't teach inductive logic, the kids who were creative and knew how to learn managed to do better at inductive logic than the kids who didn't. Kids who could regurgitate math formulae had no clue how to solve logic problems, especially the math/logic combined problems. Kids who were creative managed much better in trying to solve those kinds of problems.

DieselAddict · #36 09-10-2009, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Well, does that study address the fact that there are various cultures in play here? Take teen pregnancy for instance. In Asia, there are services for it just like there are here. HOWEVER, there is a huge negative social stigma for a woman with kids over there as compared to here where it is viewed in a vastly more positive light. As such, those results might not be very reliable.

Also, we have better social services today than if you were to compare with 10 years ago. Compare with 20, 30, 40, 50, etc, etc. Why have things gone downhill? According to the study, it should be going up as the social services improve.

Has school performance gone downhill in this country over the decades? I'm not aware of that.

Quote:

How so? More kids doesn't mean you pay. It means somebody pays for it. The real cost is the money we have to put into the kid.

Usually having more kids means you pay more. Other people may also pay more for your kids if you can't support them.

Quote:

That is the real issue. There is no motivation.

Do you really think that will do squat? I don't.

I read in the news that a lot of kids were inspired by Obama's speech. Whether it will really do something, only time will tell. Certainly it can't hurt for the President to tell kids to study hard and stay in school.

raymr · #37 09-10-2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

And schools have exactly what do do with things other than learning?

- Peter.

Clubs, sports, boosters, community stuff.

Gurkha · #38 09-11-2009, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

China also has 5 times the number of people. If you look at the figures per capita, they're not that different. But it's true that a high proportion of US college graduates are foreigners. It does seem that too many American kids are not serious enough about their education. We already throw more than enough money at it. Motivation is key. That's why I don't understand the conservative hysteria about letting Obama talk to kids about staying in school. That's just pure stupidity.

How bout Japan and Germany as well as Finland, all of them have way less population than US.

aklim · #39 09-11-2009, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

Has school performance gone downhill in this country over the decades? I'm not aware of that.

Usually having more kids means you pay more. Other people may also pay more for your kids if you can't support them.

I read in the news that a lot of kids were inspired by Obama's speech. Whether it will really do something, only time will tell. Certainly it can't hurt for the President to tell kids to study hard and stay in school.

You're joking, right? You are not aware that we spend more and get less results per student? You are not aware that we are mediocre in those quizzes for math and science we hold worldwide?

Having more kids means it costs more. It doesn't mean you pay more. There is a difference.

I guess I am not into the fluff stuff. I agree with you that it can't hurt but I doubt it does much besides waste resources. Much like Bush reading to some kids on 9/11. Both events are just fluff. I'd rather both men have sat their asses in the WH and tried to do something besides waste resources by having SS people ensure their safety.

barry123400 · #40 09-11-2009, 01:48 AM

Maybe I am misinformed. I thought a japanese student went to school eight hours a day with no major summer vacations. There would be no equivelent in north america I am aware of.

The almost consistant reliability of products was first observed years ago coming out of Japan. This was no accident in my opinion. Almost an inevatable result of their advanced in comparison to our educational system.

Have any of you worked with a Japanese national that has temporarily been assigned to north america? They sign papers to gaurantee they will return to Japan before leaving. Usually a six month period.

I found the few I worked with knowledge wise to be not only very advanced but dedicated as well. I may have been working with the cream of their crop though.

I wondered after the experience why they did not dominate the world. This six month contact occured many years ago. The other japanese I met that actually resided in north america where like a steriotypes in comparison.

The current educational benchmark is not being observed here in an increasingly competing world. China is expected to make major gains far quicker than Japan did. Quality should follow fast. North america is going to lose by defalt if it not already has. Games to delay the reality of the situation at some point may become a little thin.

aklim · #41 09-11-2009, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry123400

Maybe I am misinformed. I thought a japanese student went to school eight hours a day with no major summer vacations. There would be no equivelent in north america I am aware of.

The almost consistant reliability of products was first observed years ago coming out of Japan. This was no accident in my opinion. Almost an inevatable result of their advanced in comparison to our educational system.

Have any of you worked with a Japanese national that has temporarily been assigned to north america? They sign papers to gaurantee they will return to Japan before leaving. Usually a six month period.

I found the few I worked with knowledge wise to be not only very advanced but dedicated as well. I may have been working with the cream of their crop though.

I wondered after the experience why they did not dominate the world. This six month contact occured many years ago. The other japanese I met that actually resided in north america where like a steriotypes in comparison.

The current educational benchmark is not being observed here in an increasingly competing world. China is expected to make major gains far quicker than Japan did. Quality should follow fast. North america is going to lose by defalt if it not already has. Games to delay the reality of the situation at some point may become a little thin.

The thing I remember was a documentary that mentioned a lot of that. HOWEVER, a problem is that the previous generation went thru WWII and didn't have much leeway after that to screw up and so they worked themselves silly and sometimes, to death, even literally. HOWEVER, it has been noted that dedication has slipped with the new generation that are less willing to make sacrifices. Like we have, they too have become less hungry and sooner or later, will slip too.

barry123400 · #42 09-11-2009, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

The thing I remember was a documentary that mentioned a lot of that. HOWEVER, a problem is that the previous generation went thru WWII and didn't have much leeway after that to screw up and so they worked themselves silly and sometimes, to death, even literally. HOWEVER, it has been noted that dedication has slipped with the new generation that are less willing to make sacrifices. Like we have, they too have become less hungry and sooner or later, will slip too.

You may really have a good and valid point about us not being hungry enough in north america now. In my younger days I was.

I actually find myself sidestepping good lucrative situations as our actual needs are already well satisfied. It's almost like a clock slowly winding down. Drive is primarily driven by needs perhaps. Fat and lazy comes to mind as an old perhaps valid expression.

pj67coll · #43 09-11-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymr

Clubs, sports, boosters, community stuff.

Once again. This has exactly what to do with learining? It's precisely a manifestatoin of screwed up priorities as mentioned earlier in this post.

- Peter.

Txjake · #44 09-11-2009, 11:06 AM

Schools in the US focus too much on non essential things and not enough on hard sciences and math. Physical fitness is the pretty much only the haven of school athletes and that is not enough. parents pay too much attention to extra-curricular activities and not enough on making sure junior can do calculus

pj67coll · #45 09-11-2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

Schools in the US focus too much on non essential things and not enough on hard sciences and math. Physical fitness is the pretty much only the haven of school athletes and that is not enough. parents pay too much attention to extra-curricular activities and not enough on making sure junior can do calculus

Correct. My wife is a 7th/8th grade science teacher and sees that first hand all the time.

- Peter.