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  #1  
Old 09-10-2009, 01:25 AM
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Unhappy State of Education in US compared to other nations

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/education-c.htm

Combining primary & secondary spending, U.S. spending per student is 45%-67% higher than the most advanced international competitors.

China emerging technical power > China, not shown in this chart, "is likely to become a major center of global technological innovation, as it joins Japan as a scientific and technological power. The United States graduates about 60,000 engineers each year; Japan 70,000. China is now graduating about 325,000 engineers annually."
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:29 AM
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We emphasize the wrong stuff at the expense of important stuff. Our kids are generally ignorant of basic math, logic, and grammar skills, but they "feel" real good about themselves.
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:56 AM
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Wrong priorities from childhood, motivation is wrong. Environment is wrong, kids are encouraged to go for big bucks from start but never the means to it. So they take easy way out, athletes or life of crime. Being studious is associated with nerdhood, thats the bane of it all.
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Old 09-10-2009, 07:11 AM
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Sorry i would not trust ANY sort of science that came from China. Everyone in the science community knows that in China if you have an experiment its not allowed to fail, meaning you either do something like "proving" gravity or you lie about your results...
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:12 AM
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This has nothing to do with science per se but the number of graduates, China outnumbers all and only India with 280,000 engineering graduates per year comes remotely close to China's number. I have taught at Chinese univs and have worked with post graduate students from China and when it comes to quality and level of knowledge on their subject, they are second to none, in fact they excel in many aspects compared to us.
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:43 AM
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We emphasize the wrong stuff at the expense of important stuff. Our kids are generally ignorant of basic math, logic, and grammar skills, but they "feel" real good about themselves.
I laughed when I read that then I stopped cause I realized it's not really that funny. It's pretty sad.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:47 AM
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Wrong priorities from childhood, motivation is wrong. Environment is wrong, kids are encouraged to go for big bucks from start but never the means to it. So they take easy way out, athletes or life of crime. Being studious is associated with nerdhood, thats the bane of it all.
Unfotunatly completely true. I couldn't have written that better myself.

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Old 09-10-2009, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Gurkha View Post
Wrong priorities from childhood, motivation is wrong. Environment is wrong, kids are encouraged to go for big bucks from start but never the means to it. So they take easy way out, athletes or life of crime. Being studious is associated with nerdhood, thats the bane of it all.
And God forbid that a President should make a speech to try to reverse that trend.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:48 AM
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Sorry i would not trust ANY sort of science that came from China. Everyone in the science community knows that in China if you have an experiment its not allowed to fail, meaning you either do something like "proving" gravity or you lie about your results...
And everyone knows they eat American babies for breakfast too.

What is your experience in the US scientific community? Do we allow failures here too? I think not. Oh, we say we do but in reality, we won't. If you fail often, you don't get grant money or asked to participate in research. After all, when I sponsor something, I demand results. If you cannot provide results, perhaps another researcher will. So yes and no. We do or do not allow an experiment to fail depending on your definition. I know a physics professor that got tenure at 36 yrs. Why? Because he had all sorts of grants of which the kollege took 20%. His wife was hopeless and got her tenure because they didn't want to lose him too. After she got her tenure, he resigned. She is relegated to garbage work.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:52 AM
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motivation is wrong. Environment is wrong
Motivation is also quite often absent. We do everything we can to lessen the sting of failure which lessens the motivation to excel.
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Old 09-10-2009, 12:37 PM
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And God forbid that a President should make a speech to try to reverse that trend.
If that was indeed his message it sure doesn't jibe with his actions. Having the govt take care of you from cradle to grave sure doesn't encourage innovation, hard work, self sacrifice, and individualism. Quite the opposite. Why work hard when you will be penalized for it? Much easier to be a "victim" and get everything free. When everyone is special, no one is.
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:19 PM
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We emphasize the wrong stuff at the expense of important stuff. Our kids are generally ignorant of basic math, logic, and grammar skills, but they "feel" real good about themselves.
Ahhh . . it's the liberal strain in America what done it.

My take is that we have an inordinate focus among students and parents, to go for big bucks, via the quickest and surest route. MBA, insurance biz, investment banker, lawyer, and the one with with more of a chance of being legitimate: doctor. Not that everyone in the first four routes are illegitimate, but if the focus is on maximizing cash flow first, rather than providing goods and services of quality, lot of room for a slow slide toward mediocrity.
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:20 PM
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If that was indeed his message it sure doesn't jibe with his actions. Having the govt take care of you from cradle to grave sure doesn't encourage innovation, hard work, self sacrifice, and individualism. Quite the opposite. Why work hard when you will be penalized for it? Much easier to be a "victim" and get everything free. When everyone is special, no one is.
Tired.
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
Ahhh . . it's the liberal strain in America what done it.

Not that everyone in the first four routes are illegitimate, but if the focus is on maximizing cash flow first, rather than providing goods and services of quality, lot of room for a slow slide toward mediocrity.
Well, liberal or conservative, WGAS. If you cannot compete, you get flushed out. It is that simple. If you don't have your basic 3Rs, you cannot compete against those who do. Much like the dino.

You do realize that our competitors are also concentrating on the same things, right? Do you think the Chinese are concentrating on producing quality goods?
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:08 PM
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Ahhh . . it's the liberal strain in America what done it.

My take is that we have an inordinate focus among students and parents, to go for big bucks, via the quickest and surest route. MBA, insurance biz, investment banker, lawyer, and the one with with more of a chance of being legitimate: doctor. Not that everyone in the first four routes are illegitimate, but if the focus is on maximizing cash flow first, rather than providing goods and services of quality, lot of room for a slow slide toward mediocrity.
If there's a vaccuum to be filled in those areas I'd still rather Americans fill the void. Why shouldn't they? Would you promote your kid to be a plumber if he/she can go into banking and finance? Which job would you rather do when you're 50-60 years old?

Engineering is great, and maybe parents should beat math and science into their kid's heads like they do in Asian countries. That's where the new competition is coming from, so should we do as they do?
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