http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/sha/1401743447.html

and another http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/sha/1401705303.html

I like the first ad better. The second one implies that health insurance should be free. It shouldn't but it shouldn't be for huge profits either.

Ever wonder why so many in Congress oppose the public insurance option? Two words: campaign contributions!

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

Ever wonder why people are for it? Somebody picks up the tab if you can't.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I can't speak for other people but that's not why I'm for it. I'm for it because with a public system more of my dollars would go toward actual health care for me. You apparently like to see your health dollars go toward outrageous insurance CEO compensation and other BS.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

How do you KNOW this or are you guessing? If I could be sure of it, I'd be all over it too. You are aware that there is a lot of govt waste aren't you?

As opposed to giving the govt another pot of money to steal from and later have to borrow to fix it? Sure.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

The administrative costs don't lie, no matter how you twist them. Private insurance companies are really efficient at making money for themselves, I'll give you that. But they're terrible in giving policy holders good value for their money.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

So, you are really believing that this fat kid that can barely hit the ball suddenly becomes a superstar? Yes, we know what they spend on administration. Yes, we know how much money they dole out. That way of calculation is totally meaningless. As you agree, private insurance companies are really efficient at making money. Yet this fat kid suddenly beats them by 4-t times? Do you really believe that? Even counting that medicare doesn't advertise and can skew rules for themselves and their administrators are paid on a different tab, aka congress, are you gullible enough to believe that can account for why they are that efficient? If so, world corporations will be banging on their doors to learn how to be so efficient.

I have to believe that even with a video game mentality where each quarter buys a totally new game and the past history has no significance on the future and even with your belief that we need a nanny to avoid biting the bullet and even with you thinking that it isn't bad to be a ward of the state or at least have the state watch over you that you don't believe that 3% number. As I have said, I talked to people in the medical and business field and they have no clue how to run a business at that level of efficiency. Frankly, I too would like to know how to do it because I don't see how it is possible to do it that efficiently unless you are not counting something right. And lest we forget, we are talking of the govt who has not shown great skill in efficiency. Suddenly you believe they can put aside all their nonsense and partisan and vote grubbing ways to be that efficient? Well, I gotta go. I think they have a bridge to sell. Slightly used and well maintained.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

More grasping at straws. Show me some evidence that the 3% overhead figure is not true. Even the anti-Medicare websites you've shown me don't dispute that figure. You are confusing efficiency in limiting claims and hording money with efficiency in providing actual health care at a lower cost. Private insurance excels at the former, Medicare at the latter.

__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

Oops, flagged for removal.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

How do you dispute it? That 3% is correct the way the calculated it. I don't doubt that if you take what the payroll is divided by the amount of the checks they write out, it is 3%. As has been pointed out, Private insurance has to calculate things differently. Unlike you, I look at a person's history and see if what they claim is even possible. At a 3% overhead, they would simply be hiring people to write checks. Look at your business. Tell me if it could run at 3% and what it would be able to do.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I have no reason to suspect the 3% figure. Unlike you I don't have a strong anti-govt bias. Medicare doesn't need to spend anything on advertising or company profits and they cater to costly patients so to me it's entirely believable. Other govt-administered systems are even more efficient. I believe Taiwan's administration of govt health insurance has an overhead of 1.5%.

__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

I think it is more like you don't want to suspect any figure they give you. If you did, it would be hard for you to advocate any program the govt told you was good, wouldn't it? How many govt handouts and/or meddling programs have you ever not liked? As I have said before, you treat it like a video game. Put another quarter in and the game starts all over. My strong anti-govt bias, as you put it, comes not just from their incompetence but from their deceptive practices. Sure, nothing is going to be 100% and I can accept that. However, when coupled with the fact that they have been dishonest in the past, can you blame me for distrusting them? OTOH, maybe you can give Bush another try. After all, this time, he might be truthful. It is a new day. If their past history doesn't make you distrust what they say, I think if they told you the sky was pink, you'd believe them.

A couple of notes. Medicare also pays less than half what other companies have to pay so that would skew the equation against them. Also, Medicare doesn't have to be profitable or even break even. Run out of money? Print more. So why "waste" money with fraud detection? Does Medicare pay any taxes? If not, another equation skew.

There you go again. Where is this "Taiwan" you speak of? What state is it near? WGAS what Taiwan does? Are we going to be managed by the Taiwanese govt? The Swiss next? The govt is great as a watchdog since they can make a few bucks while keeping the companies in line. But if you make the watcher the administrator, who watches the ex-watcher?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

You really write a lot of words about nothing. In the other thread that we have going you already agreed that the 3% figure is true. I think your problem is that you only see the bad in govt and conveniently overlook most of the good things govt has done. That's called bias. I don't think I'm nearly as biased as you are because I see both the good and bad.

That's what's good about Medicare. They have enough negotiating power to get a substantial discount for their policy holders. If there was a single-payer system the bargaining power would be even more. Then we would have a higher percentage of doctors who are in the industry because they like the line of work rather than just the mighty buck.

Taiwan was just thrown in as another example of govt efficiency. Our own Medicare's 3% overhead is commendable enough on its own.

__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

In the context and the equations they use, yes. It is true. But like I said, you have to discount some important things that are done in private industry that they don't have to comply with. If an honest comparison were done, yes, I believe it will be higher.

It is not about the good vs the bad. It is about deceit. That I NEVER overlook. Like I sad, I didn't fire an employee for giving someone 2 $50 bills instead of 2 $5. I just told her that it would never happen again or it would come out of her paycheck at 25%, then 50% then 100%. I'd have fired her if she put $1 from the till into her pocket. But maybe you can explain to me, how much good would have to come from govt to overcome their CONSTANT depict?

You do realize more and more are not accepting Medicare, right? My wife has to tell her patients that Dr X's office will not accept medicare when they want that doctor.

Sure. But will they be good? Since we are talking about other countries, can you tell me why a lot of the good doctors in Singapore come here, get certification and move into private practice and leave the mediocre and inexperienced ones in govt service?

Again, if we can trust the people who have lied to us in the past and used shifty accounting tactics, yes, it is commendable.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow