Did anyone else see the report? A university scientist was able to replicate a short in the throttle control that creates a surge. No fail safe or check engine light kicked on, and the car accelerates out of control until turned off or in neutral.

I can't find a link or any article. I guess they're sawing off pedals for nothing.

*edit: Here we go. Found something.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/22/abc-news-expert-says-electronic-design-flaw-to-blame-in-runaway/

__________________
1985 500SL Euro w/ AMG bits 130k
1984 300SD Turbodiesel 192k
1980 240D Stick China 188k
2001 CLK55 AMG 101k
2007 S600 Biturbo 149k Overheated Project, IT'S ALIVE!!!

Saw that piece. Very interesting. The fact that the computer threw no codes when it happened seems to falsify Toyota's claim that if it happened it would show up in the computer. I'd like to know exactly what the guy was doing and how that might occur 'naturally'.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

The two engineeers that will be testifying tomorrow under oath before a joint government commitee along with Toyota's USA president, duplicated a runaway Toyota Avalon with Brian Ross ABC reporter at the wheel. The car surged to 70 mph, and the brake did nothing to stop it. Only by having the presence of mind to put the car in neutral did the car stop.

The engineers sent Toyota this information last week, but never heard back from Toyota.

Toyota's in big trouble I'm afraid. They have been de-contenting their cars for many years, because they discovered that they were made so well, they were building them too well. I'm afraid most manufacturers may be guilty of de-contenting their cars too. The difference in this case is, that many people have lost their lives because of Toyota's action, non-actions.

On ABC the engineers stated that shorting could occur naturally from even moisture. How do you like that?

Toyota's behavior reminds me of Bruce's post in the For sale section.

Want to sell your car easily? You *NEED* to read this!

"1. EVERY seller lies. EVERY seller lies. Some lie because they are dishonest and want to sell their car for the most money possible, so they hide any flaws and lie about the rest. Some lie because they disclose an issue but either minimize it or think they know what's wrong (and it's always a cheap/easy fix) and give you the wrong diagnosis. Some lie (and granted this isn't a 'lie' in the true sense of the word) because there are problems they just don't know are there. A leak that has not hit the ground and puddled yet, A/C that has not been used in a while but no longer works, etc.
"

__________________
1985 500SL Euro w/ AMG bits 130k
1984 300SD Turbodiesel 192k
1980 240D Stick China 188k
2001 CLK55 AMG 101k
2007 S600 Biturbo 149k Overheated Project, IT'S ALIVE!!!

Drive-by-wire going haywire. Based on what I've read in the past, Toyota is really facing a problem - not floor mats and bad pedal springs. Toyo is ducking the real issue and always has been; they deserve to get a lot of heat for it.

__________________
- Brian


1989 500SEL Euro
1966 250SE Cabriolet
1958 BMW Isetta 600

It was the ABC report I saw. I saw that claim but no explanation. What wires could be shorted and how would water get to them? What exact wires was he shorting? Why did the computer not read the discrepancy between the accelerator position and the engine throttle position?

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

If we accept that last description of a lie then everyone is a liar because there are things that are going to happen in the future that we don't know. That's about as goofy a definition of 'lie' as I've ever seen.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Lots of cars have electronic throttles now. Are they all potentially dangerous, or just Toyota's? What was wrong with the simple reliable throttle cable/linkage?

__________________
1985 380SE Blue/Blue - 230,000 miles
2012 Subaru Forester 5-speed
2005 Toyota Sienna
2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible
1999 Toyota Tacoma

No Traction control with traditional throttles

__________________
1985 500SL Euro w/ AMG bits 130k
1984 300SD Turbodiesel 192k
1980 240D Stick China 188k
2001 CLK55 AMG 101k
2007 S600 Biturbo 149k Overheated Project, IT'S ALIVE!!!

VW has been doing electronic throttles for years. I have never, ever heard of a problem with them. Ever since 1996 when the TDI came to the market in the US pressing the throttle and the brake at the same time makes the engine run at 1200 rpm... impossible to have a runaway if the go pedal sticks. I would venture that the electronic throttles on the 606 motors are programmed to do the same. Why Toyota left this basic safety feature out is beyond me.

You can have traction control with a cable throttle, my sister's Grand Prix is like that.

-Jason

__________________
1991 350SDL. 230,000 miles (new motor @ 150,000). Blown head gasket

Tesla Model 3. 205,000 miles. Been to 48 states!
Past: A fleet of VW TDIs.... including a V10,a Dieselgate Passat, and 2 ECOdiesels.
2014 Cadillac ELR
2013 Fiat 500E.

the physical mechanical throttle cable/linkage versus throttle-by-wire debate rages on. a computer belongs on your desk top but not in your car. once computers were introduced to automobiles, things began to go wrong in a hurry. simple designs tend to be more fail safe, while complex, complicated designs tend to screw up. drive-by-wire, brake-by-wire, text-message-by-wire, no-thanks-I'll-take-the-bus-by-wire.

overheard on the intercom system aboard the world's first totally computerized aircraft:

Computer Pilot: "Ladies and Gentlemen thank you for flying electron airways, home of the world's first totally computerized aircraft. Our aircraft has been outfitted with the most modern, sophisticated flight
computers the world has ever seen, therefore no human pilots are required and none are on board this flight.

Lest any of you have concerns over safety and reliability aboard this modern day aircraft, let me assure you that nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, go wrong........"

If I understood the report correctly, Toyota did build in such a feature, but the induced short, bypasses the fail safe system.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Computers in a car? What a silly idea.

Toyotas do not have a brake-throttle interlock. That is one of the things being added by the recall.

The VW electronic throttle is triple redundant: It is two position sensors in one, if they ever disagree the computer cancels the throttle and runs the engine at 1200 rpm. The same thing happens if the throttle and brake are pressed at the same time. Because the computer already controls the throttle cruise control is easy to implement.

My drive by wire TDI is a lot simpler then my 1992 ECOdiesel from an engine management standpoint... a couple simple sensors (Crank position, start of injection, fuel temp, coolant temp, quantity adjuster position, needle lift on the 3rd injector, and the electronic go-pedal) allow the computer to control a servo motor for the quantity adjuster (like rack position in an inline pump) and duty cycle solenoids for injection timing and boost control. I can take my injection pump apart with simple tools, and put it back together with 100% accuracy and function. This is not possible with the old mechanical pumps because of all the springs flywheights, etc that have to be calibrated.

Because I have a powerfull diagnostic tool I can go into the computer and preform tests, look at sensor output, and graph data over time. This makes finding faults straightforward. It's too bad no system like this exists for Mercedes outside of the $$$$$ official computer tool.

-J

__________________
1991 350SDL. 230,000 miles (new motor @ 150,000). Blown head gasket

Tesla Model 3. 205,000 miles. Been to 48 states!
Past: A fleet of VW TDIs.... including a V10,a Dieselgate Passat, and 2 ECOdiesels.
2014 Cadillac ELR
2013 Fiat 500E.