Floor Joist Reinforcement Question
 

I want to reinforce the main level floor in my house by installing sections of 2x10 between the floor joists from underneath. My basement is unfinished so the joists are exposed. I don't have support pillars in my basement as the house is supported by an iron I-beam to meet the code requirement, but this minimum code is not enough and I get too much bounce in portions of the floor. My plan is to run two lines of 2x10 along the length of the floor, each line being half-way between the wall and the I beam.

My question is this - would I achieve greater reinforcement by installing the 2x10s parallel to the floor joists/I beam? Or would it be stronger to "box in" the open section of floor by installing the 2x10s parallel to the floor at the bottom of the joist opening.

Thanks for everyone's input.

how long is the span between the i beam and the wall?

I had that problem in a rental. How long is the span? why not a strategically placed Lally or 2 on a crossbrace spanning a couple joists?

X2

Installing solid blocking from wall to wall will stiffen up a bouncy floor system.

I did this in my own home. Blocking in mid span on the floor joists should be installed on edge perpendicular to the floor joists mid span. So in my case I installed 2x10 on edge to the 2 x 10 floor joist. Cut them tight and pound them in and toenail them with something smaller than 16 penny nails...about four on each side of each end of the block.

This stiffens by bringing five or six joists into support of a point load such as a person walking.

It did a very good job for me.

We did it at my mom's house too with good results.

I doubt you have taken into consideration my Brother-in-law...6'8", 375lbs of dense inertia. May G-d protect you from such a fate as having him clomp about on your floors!

Thanks for everyone's input. The span is about 12 and a half feet from the I beam to the concrete foundation wall.

Tom, if I am reading correctly, you are suggesting I box it in at the bottom of the floor joist, so the 2x10 is parallel to the subfloor?

Carleton, I'm not sure what a Lally is. I'm a bit of a novice with framing.

Thanks again.

Here's a good tip for the required depth for joists:-

Measure the span length you wish to bridge in meters. If you double that number that is roughly the depth you need in inches.

For example a 3.5 meter width would need about a 7 inch deep joist. Buy the next size up and you're gonna be alright.

Tom is suggesting that you insert a piece of same sized joist material in between the floor joists, perpendicular to them, and in the middle of your span. This means that for a standard 16" on center floor, your pieces of blocking will be 14 1/2" long, although you should measure each one separately in order to get the tightest fit and maximum benefit. The blocking, when installed, will essentially act as a joist running perpendicular to the current joists, without taking up space below the existing framework. If that solution does not give you the support you need, then you will likely have to go to a strongback design, with a beam running under and perpendicular to the floor. If one of your questions was whether to run any of your framing with the narrow (2) side vertical and the wide (10) side horizontal, the answer would be no. Lumber should always be utilized with the wider dimension run vertically.

Perfect. Now I understand. Thank you.

And thank you everyone for your input.

Here in the Galveston area, where most of the houses are built on stilts, "lally" columns are generally considered to mean "jack posts" like such:

http://www.marshallstamping.com/jack_posts.html

which are prohibited here for some reason, altho back home in New Hampshire people use them like crazy. What is legal here, are adjustable columns:

http://www.marshallstamping.com/steel_columns.html

I have a room that was once a porch, I'm fixing to put in a row of those under the house to support it better.

I claim to be a carpenter but had not heard the "lally" term either. But that was a thought I'd had, posts under the shaky areas, that is. I did it once in a crawl space - my clients complained that their washing machine would shake the whole damn house on the spin cycle. I put pillow blocks under the area of the two front corners of it (the back was up against the wall and covered by the foundation, taken care of by it rather. I ran a 4x4 under the 3 joist bays in question and dropped 4x4 posts down to the two pillow blocks. Made a big difference.

But posts in a basement can be more trouble. Blocking tween the joists as described above would be good, I'll agree. If you want to go overkill, use some of the newer polyurethane const. adhesive with them, but wear rubber gloves when you use it. If head space in the basement is an issue, you might try 4x6s or 4x8s instead, to run under the joists, perpendicularly. If you go 4x6s you'd still need more of them to equal what 2x10s would do.

Never heard of a Lally column?? or as most guy's call 'em, lolly....What the hell do they hold houses up with out there in California??

The glue would not give any extra strength, the strength is derived from a tight fit, top to bottom, across the joist. This prevents deflection of the joist, which prevents sagging. As glue typically can be compressed more than wood, it could not possibly function as well as custom fit blocking which is tight. I have seen people use multiple rows of blocking as well, in high traffic areas.

California carpenters must not be real men, because any real man knows what a lally column is. Once your testosterone reaches the certain level, 'lally' automatically registers in your brain.

That's about sigworthy there-
Blocking, nailed and glued is a good option. There probably won't be much gained from adding a perpendicular stringer.
I didn't see it mentioned, but does the beam have any support columns under it? It may be a steel beam, but those flex like crazy, especially the minimum required by code.

Your best and cheapest way is to laminate (glue and screw) strips of 1/2" plywood to the sides of the joists. This makes an incredibly strong truss. I used it on a patio lattice cover that spanned 20' and it lasted for 20 years.

This is what I meant in more detail.

Years ago, during the building boom in the 1980s, this county allowed Engineers to do all the same housing inspection normally performed by the county. They couldn't keep up with the demand.
Having been a builder in the same county, and then working for an Engineer, I was approved to do the inspections. I did just about half of all inspections in this county over a 2-3 year period.

It was not unusual to drive thru a community a few days after I finaled a house to see the new home owners had moved in, and thrown the Lally column out in the trash. It interfered with the pool table!

Got some strange building practices there as well....proper building technique has the lally columns installed on top of caissons under the poured basement floor, which means the bottom of the column is encased in the concrete.

Need more information. Size, type of section and thickness of steel beam. Number of supports other than the end ones and spacing. Composition of subfloor.Specis of wood in the existing joists and width and depth of them. Span of joists.

Ocassionaly it is a combination of factors that makes a floor springy. I personally really dislike a springy floor.

Amount of money you want to spend to get rid of the problem. Although exactly what will do it to your absolute satisfaction will remain an unknown without all the information.

Houses built to minumin building codes are generally not satisfactory to many people. I always build extra strength and use the best materials consistant with strength and durability. some approved building materials today and for the last twenty five years I would never use.

I recommned avoiding I joists...especially for floor structures.

We call them posts, unlike the lolly-gaggers out east.

If the blocks were cut with precision, the glue would have a negligible effect. I would not use it in new construction. But the glue would make it a bit more like a guitar, that is, taut, with no chance of slippage or creaking. And it is easy to cut the blocks wrong, especially for the occasional carpenter, as the OP said he was. As the joists are often not perfectly plumb, along the face where the block will be placed that is, the glue might be a bit of insurance.

As for compression of glue, have you used the newer polyurethane const. adhesives? A major cut above the old liquid nails type.

FWIW, I got your lally columns right here, pal! ;)

A couple of houses I worked on:

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/v...s/scan0011.jpg

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/v...s/scan0015.jpg

That is a good option. No decrease in ceiling height. Half inch ply is remarkable stuff. It's available here and there in 10 and and I think, 12 foot lengths. I'd do that and then block it.

nice enough, if you're into that kind of thing....;)

the jargon in any trade is one of the prime justifications for a larger paycheck. putting in a 'post' could be done by anyone, while installing a 'Lally column' obviously requires a journeyman level builder. just as you wouldn't pay much to have a 'ditch dug', the bill for 'cutting a swale' could run into the thousands....:D

Man alive! would I love to have had the rough in plumbing job on those mon$ter$.....

I was only on the first house for 6 months - my first with the company - before they moved me to a remodel. I put in about half the windows and doors in the shot. They gave another guy the lead on the 16 foor high mahog front door - thank God - he'd been with the company much longer and had a tender ego. About 8 of us hauled it in place - said to have cost $30K. But I didn't witness too much of the plumbing. 25K sq.ft. that one.

The second I was on for 2 1/2 years (a 4 year project). Around 16K sq.ft. I got to know the plumbers real well. Bou coup work for them, good guys all. Roughing in plumbing is sorta fun. It's servicing existing plumbing that can be uhhh, distasteful.

Well put. I have some skills but there are gaps in my knowledge. Wouldn't hurt me to fill some of them.

From the OP description, 12.5 feet span for 2x10's should be ok.
Blocking should have been installed originally to keep the joists from twisting as they deflect (and spread the load to adjacent joists)

If the joists span the short distance (ie the house is 25' wide) and the beam runs the length of the house I'd be checking into the deflection of the steel beam.

At school an engineer gave us a rule of thumb for preliminary design layout: half the length of the span, in inches, for the depth of a steel beam.

If the house is 32 feet long, you start planning for a 16" deep beam.

So- how deep is the steel beam, and how far does it span? OP said no columns in basement....

...backfill even?:D:D

Nah, culvert restoration.