Then there's the "where do you save it" part of the equation. Savings accounts at a bank? Real estate? 401k plans? All of the above?

Consider the soon to be retired, or even the retired, who did save, did put money aside for retirement . . . don't suppose it was their fault that they have to potentially re-enter the job market or put off retirement because of investment banker's folly.

Not folly, sorry to disagree on a detail of your thoughtful post....Pure unadulterated naked GREED!

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I'd say an equal distribution depending on how much you have to work with and what you are looking for. (and the risk you're willing to take)

Currently I just save, don't feel like dabbling in the markets.

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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

i love when people confuse the luck of the draw with their own innate wonderfulness and genius. thank you very deigning we humble failures with your presence, we are forever in your debt.

by the way, i didn't know dr. pangloss still had so many followers. or that blaming the victim(s) was still so popular.

carry on. keep those pearls of wisdom flowing. i am pulling myself up by my bootstraps night and day.

(oh, and it would be "there are Zero jobs", not there "is". )

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"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

A job that many of us, and by us I do mean people here, have likely never considered is retail sales. Specificly: Auto Parts.

Working at a dealership is not likely to happen. They always want someone with experience in their computer system or something, but working someplace like AutoZone is not impossible. I also think that for most of us it would be fun.

I don't know what this pays up front, but i do know good people will rise through the system at any large company. And from I have seen there are a lot of good, and by that I mean smart and hard-working, people on here.

I got laid off from a management position back in '01 from a Fortune 100 company. It changed my life. I decided right then to never, ever "suck on the corporate teat" again. I went back to my roots, a trade, started my own business, paid the house off, own all the cars outright, no debt except the remaining $23K on the boat. Losing the big job made me very careful about living within my means. The wife and I make great money now, I'm busier than ever, but we don't ever overextend ourselves financially. I feel bad for others that were caught with their pants down, too much debt and now no job. Its a tough lesson to learn but if you ever talk to anyone who lived through the Great Depression, they will explain it to you. I was lucky enough to get the wakeup call early. I hope others learn from the current crisis. I doubt many will though. RT

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When all else fails, vote from the rooftops!
84' Mercedes Benz 300D Anthracite/black, 171K
03' Volkswagen Jetta TDI blue/black, 93K
93' Chevrolet C2500HD ExCab 6.5TD, Two-tone blue, 252K

I think your angst is misdirected......

Exactly how could an "investment banker's folly" hurt the imaginary retired-back-to-work people in your scenario? Unless those unamed people owned a *****load of a bank stock - they lost nothing. And if they did own a *****load of any stock bank or investment stock that lost it's value - that is greed, and they then deserved to lose it all by not diversifying.

Here's an example of greed many are unwilling to recognize:
After Enron failed in the early 2000s, a group of elderly retired from Enron gathered for a meeting in Omaha to see what they could do about losing all their retirement money - that they knowingly left in Enron stock. Their picture published in Omaha's newspaper the World-Herald was a sad sight - old people with long faces. These formerly well heeled individuals each left hundreds of thousands to millions of retirement dollars in Enron stock - all at tremendous risk after retiring. Many former multi-millionaires wanted even more millions of dollars on top of their millions. Much more than they could possibly ever spend, given their frugal lifestyles, yet they wanted more. That is pure greed.

We've all read story after story of greedy businessmen, but what about the greedy person that borrowed so much money living it up, that they still owe and are upside down on a stinking two or three year old Chevrolet and don't have the money to pay it off if they wanted to. No, many are still in denial as to how they got where they are today - many still don't realize that they put themselves there with risk and debt. Because they thought that's the way you do things. They are perhaps learning that debt is not the way to financial independence. It is a sad commentary indeed. There's nothing funny about not being able to pay your bills.

The government has hurt more people financially through taxes, misappropriation of regulation and welfare, than any "investment banker" ever has, or ever could. Yet no one seems to recognize that fact. Why is that do you suppose?

Who is the real demon here, some investment banker? That's a laugh! The real demon is the consumer's own greed, and the government. Plain and simple.

Let's step back to the reality of what 2008/2009 did to nearly everyone's 401(K) or mutual fund accounts and also that legendary "nest egg" called real property. While some of you want to wag a finger at speculators and those living beyond their means, so to speak, you pay very little lip service to the vast number of folks that were the collateral damage to the financial sector meltdown. Believe it or not, there are quite a few folks that weren't trading up houses, paying their mortgages on time and doing all the right things . . . until their savings and nest eggs got "revalued."

What does an "investment banker's folly," have to do with the scenario of retired people going back to work? Are you trying to factor out free will, and personal responsibility in the imaginary scenarios you are writing about?

Step back to reality.....I don't know where you've been the past 13 months, since the value of any rationally balanced 401K or self-directed IRA pre-1/1/'08, has regained most all it's value by 3/'10.

Perhaps your 401K isn't faring as well? I would find out why in a hurry - before the bottom drops out of the market once again - which it is destined to do.

The markets fell apart, and still do suck in a lot of areas. A lot of people are out of work or simply working to eat now.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I do think that anyone who was planning on retiring in the short term took a significant hit. Folks how are not planning on retiring soon (or never, like me) have time to wait for their funds to recover. It is also an issue for anyone who wants/needs to sell property in the short term. I just sold some property for about $100K less than it would have been worth a few years ago; I know I could have held it for 5 years, but it is 2000 miles from my home and I have no interest in being in the real estate investment business, especially long distance. Just saying that there was collateral damage, and it will last for several more years.

I'm with you on the highlighted part. Working for dealerships as a service advisor, from 2003 to 2008, I watched my income decline $25Gs and the amount of hours I worked increase by the equivalent of an additional week per month. In 2003, I paid $22Gs in federal & state taxes ("single", no property ownership) - almost a third of my income..

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Sharing my partner's 2012 Forte 5dr SX til I find my next 123 or 126..
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Do I miss being a service advisor ???

I agree.

I also think it's bad form to tell people to sell short on a home or walk away.
Am I the only one who thinks that's unethical? I wouldn't have anything to do with anyone who did that.
Might as well claim bankrupcy.

If you want to talk about problems. How about people not living up to their abligations and paying their debtors!

Danny

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1984 300SD Turbo Diesel 150,000 miles

OBK member #23

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination

Do you remember the Long Term Capital collapse in 1997? Warren Buffett described LTC's strategy as picking up nickels in front of a steam roller.

99.99999% of the time, because the steam roller is so slow, picking up the nickels is easy. But.....

Furthermore, he describes insanity as "risking what you have and need for something you don't have and don't need"

Greedy for nickels. Meriweather, Black, Scholes worked for LTC! Supposedly smart dudes. They were already rich before LTC was founded!

I

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Ben
1987 190d 2.5Turbo

Met a guy a few weeks ago who bought a place in Ft. Myers for 380,000 a couple of years ago. Forclosures are selling there now for 80,000. He's got a 300,000 mtge he quit paying on a year ago. Bank hasn't forclosed. H/O assn still providing services, etc. Elect & Utils still on. Said he took a vacation down there in Dec.

I hear what you are saying, but every dollar he pays on that mortgage is lost. Forever. Morality aside, it doesn't make economic sense. He will have to pay the piper eventually, but at least he's hanging on to his money for now.