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  #76  
Old 04-22-2010, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonkovich View Post
listen mr. "glass half full", again, don't confuse luck with genius. if or when things go bad for you, you will understand, and perhaps have empathy.
I have been bankrupt twice. I know what it is like.

If you find yourself in dire trouble, you need dire change of action. Expecting different results from the same actions is insane.

I have started businesses that failed funded by Visa and Discover cards. I got to know the debt collectors by name. I've had to borrow money from parents to make payroll. I've had to dig foundation ditches by shovel when the backhoe operator did not show up hours before the cement guys were scheduled to come. Do you know how much fun it is to dig through red clay?

If I wasn't a Half Glass full guy, I'd be on welfare. These are experiences I would not trade for anything. You don't have to worry about such things as an employee. But then again, you miss out on all the fun of building your own destiny.

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  #77  
Old 04-22-2010, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
However, I know lots of folks who work plenty hard but still are not fortunate financially or in other ways.

Being lucky in marriage goes a long way in life.....how does anyone know? I married my wife after knowing her less than six months and it has been wonderful, but I consider myself very very lucky in that respect. (I wasn't so lucky the first marriage!)

I don't advise anybody to rely on luck but in my own case I feel very lucky for what I have and what I have been given through no effort of my own.
But if you do stupid things, nothing matters. I decided to buy beer instead of insurance and it damned me for a couple of years. I thought there would be time to buy it next month but that didn't happen that way.

3 months. Married since 90. No, it wasn't luck. It was that you probably were too idealistic the first time. I scrutinized my wife, checked what she said vs what she did and see the pattern. To this date, I still verify but way less often.

I think you underestimate the work you put in.
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  #78  
Old 04-22-2010, 11:16 PM
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In a rather large number of smaller communities NAFTA has decimated the industrial base. Firms have not only shut down but stripped entire 40K+ sq ft buildings of any usable equipment.

Production moved ! out of the country, south or across the Pacific.

Not having an industrial base is going to make recovering from this current mess that much more difficult.

Having 12 to 30 million illegals here doesnt help either.

Our media doesnt portray reality well. A new retail firm moved here to compete with wallyworld. They are looking to hire 20 or so people in June. Local paper said about 150 were in line applying while everyone I spoke with said there was about 400 there from the length of the line.

Each one of the ~400 or most of them are currently unemployed and have been for some time. Probably 30 mfg firms have totally closed down.

I hear ya Ben about 'move if there isnt anything' but honestly .. in America today ...WHERE ?? I have friends nationwide like most here and constantly hear the same thing... 'company's here are closing in droves'

Hope is such a precious commodity. Ive done a bit of plant traveling in Tennessee and its more than upsetting to see hard working dedicated employees concerned about their futures and virtually hopeless due to the diminishing number of production plants. Concerned because they see plant after plant close around them, their friends and neighbors unable to find employment and just rather at a loss to know what to do.

Our consistently piss poor choice of elected folks in DC and locally for now decades is finally coming home to roost.

Im a vet so I feel more remorse in saying this than most... even the doufas pseudo commander in chief today admitted that 'We are overextended'
After adding trillions to the debt just so far in his term ya think ???

My even deeper concern is where we will be in the next 5 years.
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  #79  
Old 04-22-2010, 11:23 PM
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I'm just grateful that I have enough ambition not to spend time sitting around on a computer complaining about the unemployed.
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  #80  
Old 04-22-2010, 11:25 PM
Craig
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Originally Posted by MBlovr View Post
I'm just grateful that I have enough ambition not to spend time sitting around on a computer complaining about the unemployed.
Me too, that's why I'm using my phone instead.
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  #81  
Old 04-22-2010, 11:41 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim View Post
But if you do stupid things, nothing matters. I decided to buy beer instead of insurance and it damned me for a couple of years. I thought there would be time to buy it next month but that didn't happen that way.

3 months. Married since 90. No, it wasn't luck. It was that you probably were too idealistic the first time. I scrutinized my wife, checked what she said vs what she did and see the pattern. To this date, I still verify but way less often.

I think you underestimate the work you put in.
I have worked hard and taken risks....but plenty of folks have worked as hard and do not succeed. Hard work alone does not guarantee success. I think the most important thing is perserverance.....but in today's economy it is a whole new game and much harder to have even limited success.
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  #82  
Old 04-23-2010, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benhogan View Post
I have been bankrupt twice. I know what it is like.

If you find yourself in dire trouble, you need dire change of action. Expecting different results from the same actions is insane.

I have started businesses that failed funded by Visa and Discover cards. I got to know the debt collectors by name. I've had to borrow money from parents to make payroll. I've had to dig foundation ditches by shovel when the backhoe operator did not show up hours before the cement guys were scheduled to come. Do you know how much fun it is to dig through red clay?

If I wasn't a Half Glass full guy, I'd be on welfare. These are experiences I would not trade for anything. You don't have to worry about such things as an employee. But then again, you miss out on all the fun of building your own destiny.
then it seems like your vilification of the unemployed and unfortunate is even more of a projection than i figured.

(it's a lovely concept, this mastery of one's own destiny; sadly, such conceits are quite delusional. as evelyn waugh said of the human condition: "i see fear in a handful of a dust.)

oh, and if everyone were an entrepreneur, who exactly would they employ?

for the record, i have been an employee (though usually i end up being asked to be a manager) as well as an employer. at present i manage a 16 unit apartment building, for which i receive a free one bedroom apartment and garage in return. additionally, i paint sets for tv shows, and paint houses, apts, restaurants etc., hang drywall, even do plumbing, haul trash and do demo, even drive an elderly attorney to court and the jail, and despite these efforts, i have seen my income go from $50k to about $15k. so don't tell me (and lots of other struggling people i know) that we are overextended, lazy losers. the pie is getting smaller, and more people want pieces. be thankful for what you have, but don't think that people are struggling cause they're not trying. (unless it makes you feel better - which it seems to.)
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  #83  
Old 04-23-2010, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post

Being lucky in marriage goes a long way in life.....how does anyone know? .
Showed the documentary 'Waging a Living' in class last week and today to spur some discussion about social justice. A number of people noticed that the hard working yet down on their luck characters in the film, are all single yet had previous marriage partners. It impressed upon me the truth of Tom's statement. Much of what it is written about the institution of marriage ignores the fact that it is fundamentally an economic institution. The most hopeful character in the film is a women who fell into poverty as a result of divorce and is about to climb her way out with a new partner.
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  #84  
Old 04-23-2010, 07:08 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonkovich View Post
then it seems like your vilification of the unemployed and unfortunate is even more of a projection than i figured.

(it's a lovely concept, this mastery of one's own destiny; sadly, such conceits are quite delusional. as evelyn waugh said of the human condition: "i see fear in a handful of a dust.)

oh, and if everyone were an entrepreneur, who exactly would they employ?

for the record, i have been an employee (though usually i end up being asked to be a manager) as well as an employer. at present i manage a 16 unit apartment building, for which i receive a free one bedroom apartment and garage in return. additionally, i paint sets for tv shows, and paint houses, apts, restaurants etc., hang drywall, even do plumbing, haul trash and do demo, even drive an elderly attorney to court and the jail, and despite these efforts, i have seen my income go from $50k to about $15k. so don't tell me (and lots of other struggling people i know) that we are overextended, lazy losers. the pie is getting smaller, and more people want pieces. be thankful for what you have, but don't think that people are struggling cause they're not trying. (unless it makes you feel better - which it seems to.)
Well said!
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  #85  
Old 04-23-2010, 07:10 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Showed the documentary 'Waging a Living' in class last week and today to spur some discussion about social justice. A number of people noticed that the hard working yet down on their luck characters in the film, are all single yet had previous marriage partners. It impressed upon me the truth of Tom's statement. Much of what it is written about the institution of marriage ignores the fact that it is fundamentally an economic institution. The most hopeful character in the film is a women who fell into poverty as a result of divorce and is about to climb her way out with a new partner.
If I were still married to my first wife I would be broke....she can spend it faster than I could ever make it! I don't know how her present husband can keep up with his apparent profession....unless he is selling drugs on the side.

One of my professors in the Architecture school said to me once...."Its a good idea for an Architect to be married to someone with a guaranteed income like a teacher for example". I was already married to my first wife at the time so that was impossible, though she got a teaching degree and never used it.

When I was looking for a wife again I ended up marrying my present (teacher) wife. The teaching profession looks pretty excellent at the present.

That professor gave some other good life advice too, like keeping your debt down. I have a lot of debt now but it is almost all real estate related and all of it is tied to income producing property. My primary residence has the carriage house and basement apartment which pays for more than half the mortgage.
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  #86  
Old 04-23-2010, 09:11 AM
Craig
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Here's an interesting story on unemployment:

http://cnnmoney.mobi/money/lt_ne/lt_ne/detail/208426;jsessionid=4B36514FCD01414C021CD445C3C11A53.money4
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  #87  
Old 04-23-2010, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig View Post
well, it's more of a press release from the cato institute, which is a front group - not a "libertarian think tank" - for, among others, the koch family, a fine group of greedheads whose fortune in gas and oil has been abetted by cheating the government and native americans out of royalties, along with aggressive tax evasion. (which might explain why "washington has no money") you will find that cnn is not much of a news organization anymore - more like "news lite". however, if you "take the initiative", "pull yourself up by your bootstraps", "think outside the box", and actually do a little research on your own, you can deconstruct what passes for reporting. please, don't be lazy like those evil, shiftless unemployed people.
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  #88  
Old 04-23-2010, 11:32 AM
Craig
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Originally Posted by tonkovich View Post
well, it's more of a press release from the cato institute, which is a front group - not a "libertarian think tank" - for, among others, the koch family, a fine group of greedheads whose fortune in gas and oil has been abetted by cheating the government and native americans out of royalties, along with aggressive tax evasion. (which might explain why "washington has no money") you will find that cnn is not much of a news organization anymore - more like "news lite". however, if you "take the initiative", "pull yourself up by your bootstraps", "think outside the box", and actually do a little research on your own, you can deconstruct what passes for reporting. please, don't be lazy like those evil, shiftless unemployed people.
They seem to address both sides of the issue. I was just pointing out that there is a cost to extending benifits. Personally, I would love to opt out of unemployment insurance, just like SS.
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  #89  
Old 04-23-2010, 11:47 AM
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I was fortunate in more ways than one, such that I was able to locate another job, even though it meant moving to another state, early in 09 before things REALLY went to hell.

Fortunate in that I picked a highly technical rate, nuclear power, when I entered the Navy, that gave me a broad line of schooling and experience over 20 years.

Fortunate in that I stuck with it for 20 years, instead of taking early retirement, and got a full pension from them under the original GI Bill. And fortunate that I'm eligible for Tricare Prime, health insurance which is not employer dependent and PORTABLE ACROSS THE ENTIRE COUNTRY (where was portability in the health care bill?).

Fortunate in that I started my own retirement accounts many years before I retired from the military, so that I wouldn't be entirely dependent on a military pension and SS or other government programs, or an employer-based 401 k program - even 20 years ago, I came to the conclusion that SS was NOT going to be there in 40 years when it came my time to retire, and made plans accordingly to fend for myself if need be.

Fortunate in that while I did have a high-paying job, I made not only myself but also my parents debt free - paying off the original mortgage on their house, helping them set up and also pay off a single home equity loan to not only make needed repairs to their house but also pay off other debts and only have one monthly payment, setting up retirement accounts of their own while they were still working - now in their 70's and retired, they're in better financial shape than they were in their working years.

Fortunate in that I had a friend that retired from a major bank, and warned me many months in advance of what was going to happen with subprime mortgages, derivatives, etc - such that I was able to take action and significantly limit the damage to my savings and retirement accounts when the stock market and economy went to hell.

Fortunate in that I got back in contact with an old Navy friend and his family several years ago, and had made several trips down to Texas to visit and was somewhat familiar with the area. So when I started seeing the handwriting on the wall with Freightliner in early 08, I made a couple trips down and already had the groundwork laid for a potential move and finding another job well before Freightliner kicked us out the door in March 09. Matter of fact, I already had my present job locked in within 3 days of Freightliner giving us 60 day notice of being laid off in January 09. So when I walked out the door at Freightliner in NC on the last day, I just loaded up what I needed in the Jeep and hit the road for Texas to start my new job.

6 months later, I contacted the veterans rep at the NC ESC office back in my old home town. He said that of the nearly 1,000 people from that county that had been laid off from Freightliner, I was still the ONLY person to have found another job, and I had to move to Texas to do it. Unemployment in that county was then at nearly 15% officially.

I could well understand why - in the 12 years since I retired from the military, I'd watched one company and plant after another close down and head to Mexico or China from that area. What one poster said isn't an exaggeration - Matshu****a had an A/C compressor plant in that town, 6 years ago they decided to move production to China - they literally did strip that plant down to nothing but the concrete floor, 4 walls, and a roof - every tool, every wrench, every piece of equipment, even the office chairs - got crated up and shipped to China.

Fortunate in that I was able to face reality and make the move to another area and another job, knowing there was essentially nothing left in that area of NC - instead of sitting around drawing unemployment benefits and waiting for a recall letter from Freightliner that I knew would never come, or looking for another job in that area when I knew damn well there weren't any - as many others deluded themselves into doing, or had to do because they didn't have the options or choices I had available.
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  #90  
Old 04-23-2010, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
One of my professors in the Architecture school said to me once...."Its a good idea for an Architect to be married to someone with a guaranteed income like a teacher for example".
That's hilarious. My wifes a teacher. We just got rid of 39 teachers in our district this year. Which is one of the least badly affected districts in this state. She's expecting to have her pay cut, or simply be unemployed sometime next year.

- Peter.

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