Rep. Joe Barton apologizes to Tony Hayward
 

For the white house's insistence on the 20B dollar recovery fund. He's "ASHAMED"?? WTF??
Wonder how many oil dollars this TX good old boy's got in his own slush fund?

Barton may agree with the concept of a fund, the problem is if Obama is trying to "force" it, that is illegal. And it is really stupid to try and piss off the company/people that will most likely fix the problem.

Joe Barton is the biggest whore in Texas politics, BP and Exxon own his sorry ass like the ***** that he is.

Tell that to the people in LA who have found it impossible to get it from BP. And he didn't "force" it, he probably told them that their alternative was for them to be prosecuted, which tends to focus the mind.

Illegal? BP does quite well leasing drilling rights from the US govt. Our govt. should not be required to rely on the good graces of a multi-national corp, particularly one that benefits by association with it so well as BP does.

The unconscionable string of cost-cutting decisions BP made leading up to this event strikes me as sufficient grounds to seize assets, and more aggressively than was done at this point, if that had been needed.

Otherwise, large corps have become rogue nations, essentially, and we're heading too much that direction anyway.

With emphases on "Most likely"...It's how many weeks now?

What about "due process" and an executive branch that administers the laws passed by the legislative branch?
The President is acting autocratic; is that a good thing?

Didya hear the LA HR member basically told BP boss the other day that his ancestors would be given a knife and they would know what to do. :rolleyes:


http://money.cnn.com/2010/06/15/news/economy/big_oil_goes_to_washington/index.htm

How is he acting illegally? He asked, and they complied. Perhaps BP should have went to court instead, I bet they didn't think of that. Perhaps the judge would have seen how unjust it all is to have that poor oil company shell out.

Basically I agree with Barton, BP was strong armed.
Not even for good reasons, but for political reasons.

I do believe they owe, I think any attempt to weasel out should result in a takeover, at least of US assets of BP.

Notice though it isn't 20b, it 5b a year for 4 years so OB gets the "political" goddie goodie but it isn't really what it appears.


Of course then my favorite part was Engel (not Charlie) stating that Hayward was insulting their intelligence.
Sorry can't insult what you don't have !!!!!

It was all a big dog and pony show with the politicians trying to act like they were getting tough on BP, of course with their hands out to the Oil industry for contributions.

That was weak. Just embarrassing.

Tell that to the people on the Gulf coast and see what it gets you.

I think the reasons and whatever tactics used were more than justified. What you call strong arming I call justice and leadership on Obama's part. 20 billion is just a drop in the bucket compared to the current and future costs are going to be.

The more the GOP apologizes to BP, the more their high hopes for November evaporate, so I hope they keep it up. Barton, with one gum flap, destroys the entire case that the GOP would some how be better at managing this huge environmental crisis by showing just whose bread they would be buttering if they were in charge.

Are you kidding? The future costs are this...

Who cares what the price/barrel is/will be. BP will charge a little bit more to recoup that dollars they pay out to anyone, if at all.

It's the consumer of the BP products that will be paying the costs.

That's how it works in the private sector.

If it didn't, BP would no longer exist and then, guess what?

Who else is at fault and is still standing?

If BP folds, all the money being promised is nothing more than a politians' promise...and we all know what those are worth. :rolleyes: ;)

Anyway you look at it, that hole in the bottom of the ocean is costing us ... and will continue to cost us for a LONNNNNNNGGGGGG TIME.

Buying property along the Gulf Coast is not a good idea...and will remain that way for an even longer time.

I can't even begin to imagine what the shoreline, let alone 20 miles or more inland, will look/smell like if even one hurricane makes landfall anywhere between NO and the west coast of Florida.

Anyone run that scenario, yet? :confused: :eek: :rolleyes: :cool:

So what you're saying is that BP should not be held accountable for the costs of the disaster they created? Should we relay on BP's benevolence are let them decide what to pay for?

Who is it that you think should pay the the costs of the cleanup if it isn't BP?

I agree, you are very confused.

BP sells oil all over the world, so the idea that US taxpayers will be paying for it all is stupid.

By the way, I've heard Barton just apologized to The Queen because we were so rude to have a revolution a few years back.

There is no shortage of stupid people who have decided to put the blame on the US government for this disaster. They could care less about the oil spill and would rather play petty partison politics for whatever reason.

And you're agreeing...with who? :confused: About what? :confused:

I didn't say BP should get off scott-free. Show me where I did.

I'm pointing out that there are costs that will continue and will so for a long time. The American Taxpayer is just one in a long line of those that will be paying for this screwup...that should go without saying...it's so obvious...except for a few that want to piss on about nothing...

My biggest ***** is this: What I don't want to see is the government getting so involved in trying to manage this situation. They do NOTHING to make things better...they only serve to be the 800 # gorilla on the backs of those trying to stop this mess and get to the solution.

Show me ONE THING the government has done, so far, to stem that leak. Nothing.

They've set up investigative committees, they've got some volunteers walking around the beaches, leading camera-people around by the noses, they're out doing photo-ops and mouthing sound-bites. Hell, you can get some of the grade-school commies-in-training to do the same crap and the little buggers will be happy to get out of the classrooms...all for free...except for the gas/diesel to bus 'em to and from the beaches...

The point is this:

Let the government HELP in STOPPING THE PROBLEM...not stand around with its fist up its rump screaming like "Chicken Little" that someone better do something about it. Any moron can do that, and everyday, more and more idiots get on TV and prove that point, ad nauseum.

We already know that there will be fines. Why are we NEGOTIATING, RIGHT NOW, as to what the "repriation fund" will be? Why should it ONLY be $20B. Who predicted that the end resultant figure will, magically, be $20B?

I say scrap the agreement, get everyone on the BP payroll that's being effected by this disaster and let BP pay payroll taxes and the like. There's the proper 800# gorilla. Uncle Sam gets the tax money, they can HELP stop the flow and send BP THAT bill, but get Uncle Sam out of the "Kiss Your BooBoo" mode and start acting like a Government and not some kiss-ass nanny.

Barton just beat Obama to the apologize.

I hope Barton doesn't have contributors from the penis enlargement industry, his apology to them could be embarrassing to him.

First of all, BP's liability has not been capped at 20 billion by anyone. If you would have bothered to check the facts instead of flapping your jaw, you would know this. It's a starting point to get the ball rolling. It has nothing to do with clean up costs. It's purpose is to have lump sum of money readily available to be dispersed by an impartial 3rd party to the pay the victims of the spill without having to rely on BP's "generosity".

Secondly, the US government doesn't have the resources nor expertise to stop the spill. As much as some like to think, the Government is not in the oil drilling business. The so called "experts" are private sector people, and the specialized equipment and technology being used is not in the governments inventory.

Thirdly, the President has correctly and rightfully put the full financial burden on BP and not the American people. If BP thinks their going to pass on the costs to the American public through their products, they are sadly mistaken. The American public will buy elsewhere and I'm sure the competition is more than willing to take up the slack. BP has plenty of money and physical assets, just look at the quarterly dividends payed out last week.

Fourthly, if you think the US government shouldn't be involved in deciding what reparations are needed, then who do you think should decide, BP? Yea right.

And lastly, I'm glad the committees exists to investigate the spill and those responsible for it. I'm also pleased that we have volunteers and media walking the beaches, cleaning the birds, and exposing the dire consequences of what happens when big corporations put profits before safety and environmental concerns.

Fkng Oil companies cutting costs and jobs while making record profits, rushing their projects without regards for Safety and the Environment. They will give you the BS that Safety is first but we all know that profits come first. BP will pay for a long time, after all is said and done, they may be taken over by a Exxon or Shell.:mad:

I hope someone can assure everyone that the fund will be administered by a truly impartial 3rd party. We do not need this money to become political "walking around money."
2nd--Agreed--The government lacks the expertise----then tell the President to stop sounding like he personally can and will stop the leak.

3rd No problem--after due process, of course. We don't need the modern equivalent of , "Lets give the horse thief a fair trial before we hang him."

4th Thank goodness for the volunteers who are actually cleaning up the mess with no thought of political grandstanding. How many thousand small craft are signed up by the Coast Guard for the effort? I thought it was a lot.

If all you have in politically driven cynicism, then you have nothing substantive to offer.

Perhaps you have something to support that statement beside idiotic political rhetoric? I've seen nothing to indicate the President has said any such things. Indeed quite the opposite.

BP hung themselves. The evidence is all over the gulf. They drilled it, they spilled it, and they are responsible for cleaning it. I believe there are precedents ands laws already in place covering this. What more do you need to realise who the guilty party is and what their responsibilites are?

And how many of them are trained and equipt to deal with Oil spills? It's one thing to have a fishing boat or pleasure craft, but it's a whole nother thing to think this type of expertise and equipment will magically appear ready for deployment. It's gonna take time, training, infrastructure and money. This is gonna take many months to implement and years to clean up. Hell, the cleanup from the Exxon Valdez is still ongoing, and that was a tiny spill compared to this mess.

Stupid comment, get a clue.

Coming from you, I take THAT as high praise, indeed.

The problems with progressives is that so much of what they KNOW just isn't so.

Well then, I'd be more than happy to "praise" you at every oppurtunity I can.:rolleyes:

When you offer nothing but cynicism and partisan rhetoric in response to developing solutions to critical problems, I must conclude you have nothing pertinent to offer other than your stupid statements.

Yeah, I'm the most partisan guy around here.

On that we can agree.

Sounds like Sara Palin talking..

Or someone in a third grade classroom.

I would like to remind the pundits this is the worst environmental catastrophe we have seen.

Or grandchildren will read about this in history books.

If the two political parties cannot unite and help fix the problem I think this country is sunk.

But please, keep up the partisan bull.

Speaking as someone who has been involved in many oil leaks....

The talk here of due process is nonsense. This is currently a civil matter and could be settled in court. If anyone here is stupid enough to think that BP wants this to wind up in a real civil trial....

When we had a problem, and one of the bosses wanted to fix it on the cheap, we used to tell our execs, "How hard will it be for the plantifs lawyer to find 12 people that hate oil companies?"

There is also a point here that is very important that everyone has missed. If an oil leak is found it must be 'claimed'. If you claim the leak you truly own it. And don't start in on Obama 'claimed' it since he is not, by law, authorized to do so. Only someone in the oil business, who is registered in the state where the leak takes place, can, and it must be done verbaly and in writing with-in 24 hours of the leaks discovery.

If you wish to be in the oil business you have to have premission to prove to the state you can handle it. Someone's name, someone who must be a resident of the state, has to be the oil companies' agent. If criminal laws are broken they are the one going to jail. You have to account for every barrell of oil you intend to produce or move (so the state can get their taxes from it) and you have to show that you are financialy responsible in case anything goes wrong.

If anything goes wrong you are required to pay for the damages to the extent of your ability. Your performance bond will not cover the cost? Well then, it is goodbye company assets!

The state, or if you are operating on a Fed lease, can require you to put up more money to cover damages if they think you are going to skip. In BP's case it was $20 Billion. Please understand that they agreed to do this in order to receive an operation permit. BP is a big company, they know how to read a contract. Would they put up this money just because they are good people? If they are good people then why do they kill more employees than all the other oil companies?

What some people here are calling a 'shakedown' is what the oil industry calls 'business as usual'. If you create problems you know you will be held responsible. Of course, you can just leave the oil business, but the state will grab everything you have to cover your mistakes and clean-up your messes.

They can do this because you agreed to this when you received your operating permit.

And remember the 'claiming' thing I mentioned? So far BP has not Claimed the leak. They have said they will pay for all clean up costs, but they have not said the leak was their fault. This Claiming is not just something that is done to help get things cleaned up; it is a leagal requirement. If no one Claims a leak then whoever discovered it has to clean it up. After an invesigation determins who is really at fault the guilty have to pay for all the clean up and damages. Avoiding Claiming is where the Criminal penatilies start to kick in.

No where has BP Claimed this leak. When Tony was speaking to the good folks in DC he never said BP was at fault. He said we all would have to wait until it was investigated.

If BP had claimed the leak, and later they were found to be not at fault, they could recover ALL the cost from the company that was and the state would assist them. As it is they are stuck with paying all the bills, and if they can prove some other company caused the leak then recovering their costs is up to them.

I was watching Tony speaking to the Washington bunch with a friend of mine, a very die-hard Republican who has been in the oil biz for about 40 years, and both of us just looked at each other. "How much jail time did that ol' boy just buy himself?", my friend asked. I answered, "All of it."

I remember seeing an exec smirk at a State Regulator like Tony did to the Congressmen. I asked him if he enjoyed it and he said he did. I told him that was good since it was going to cost us a lot. I heard later our fine was several million Dollars and a written warning that our permits to operate would be pulled if we had another infraction with-in six months. The fine was easy to pay, but the fellow with the smirk was tasked with keeping the incident rate to zero. He retired since he knew he was not up to the job.

At least my guy did not lie to the Regulators. I don't know if Tony did or not, but he sure blew town quickly. We used to keep aircraft on the runway with the engines running when operating in some Arab countries. You never know when you might need to leave in a hurry, so his quick departure is not unheard of. And it is much easier to do than explaining your side of a story to a Judge.

You may also be under the impression that all of this 'shakedown' stuff on the Govs part is something new, but you would be wrong. There is enviromental damage here in Oklahoma that was caused 90 years ago that is still being cleaned up, and it is being cleaned up (and paid for) by current day oil people. In the past it was get out the oil and forget about the clean up. No state allows any oil company to operate that way today.

Not even if their name if BP.

Pooka has a better handle on this than anyone else so far on this post. My concerns are that the Government needs to shut up and work towards HELPING to get this thing plugged and shut down...offer assistance instead of saying "...there's some serious ass-kicking about to go down..." That's the type of retoric that's not needed.

As for the A-hole talking-head at BP that did get his arse handed to himself on a silver platter...isn't anyone minding the kitchen while these guys are going out in front of the press and opening their mouths? Vet the speech before giving it.

"O" needs to tone it down, any and all Congressmen need to get off their high horse and soap box and STFU. My own Congressdweeb "claims" he's kicking BP's arse and is looking for others to sign on. This guy couldn't find the Mississippi River unless he had a pending River-Rat Darwin Award candidate leading him and he's saying he's in charge of deciding the color of BP's underwear.

As for checking facts...who knows what the facts are...no one has a clear handle on HOW MUCH OIL IS PUKING OUT OF THAT HOLE so the whole "They're going to pay this or that..." argument is purely academic...and it will remain so until REAL people start doing REAL work on the REAL problem. So far, we have a few cameras looking at A PIPE. Is that the only leaking component or are there others?

And as for the taxpayers paying for this cleanup...

Anyone from the government walking around and pontificating about this problem is getting a paycheck from the government...which is you and me (at least the one's WORKING in the private sector). We've got LOCAL Department of the Interior workers (part of the upper Mississippi River Conservancy) being ORDERED by their superiors in D.C. to be ready to report to the Gulf in the next few days. My neighbors...heading to the Gulf. This was on our local news last night...

Yep, taxpayers are paying for this right now. And they will continue to pay.

Those are the FACTS...whether BP pays it back now or later.

And who has the books on this RIGHT NOW? What's the current tab? No one knows and I highly suspect we'll never know.

But, we don't need the Prez running down the Gulf every other week and giving a "Rah! Rah!" speech to the faithful (or is it the fateful?). He can do the same thing from the Oval Office.

Besides, why should he embarrass himself like Bush did? The left screamed at the idiocy of him being in NOLA following Katrina, right? Is "O" working off the same FEMA playbook that was left laying around after Bush left office? Is that another thing that "was forgotten" like the left-over staff at the MMS?

Pooka needs to keep us informed of the real workings of the oil industry and we need to get the Feds out of the picture and back behind the scenes where they belong and won't make a bad situation worse.

No where has the phrase "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you" been so full of hot air.

Except the upcoming campaign season's trails... :rolleyes:

Thanks for the kind words, and I agree with you. This is not the time to be making points with the voters. It is a time for action.

The Gov of LA, Jindle, has finally reached this point. By getting behind the plan of putting vac trucks on barges something is getting done. It is a small something, but everything is a small something when the problem is this big.

The US Coast Guard shut down the vac truck/barge program for a day but they somewhat had to. The barges being used are not sea worthy, and by that I mean they are for inland use and not ocean going use, and no one was wearing life-jackets. With approval from above the Coast Guard allowed the barges to operate, but they had to be secure in the thought that the Cajuns running the vac barges understood the risks and were up to the task. I have met and worked with enough of these types of people that I was not worried for a minute, but then I am not responsible for their lives.

I have seen many instances of this sort of 'field improvision' put together by smart folks (and by that I mean experienced oil field/pipeline types) that are on the site since no two spills are alike. Sometimes the ones that think up a new solution are not familair with the safety requirements and need another to point it out to them. I have never seen anyone get upset over too much safety. I mean, who wants to be injured or dead?

One size will not fit all on this spill as it is just too diverse. It is going to take a lot of what Gov. Jindle called 'Cajun Ingenuity' to solve this problem.

I do feel bad for BP stockholders, but then, on the other hand, the stockholders never companined when BP was causing more industrial accidents than all the other oil companies combined.

Cutting corners will do two things: Increase profits and cause accidents.

Sometimes those accidents are too much for a company to bear. I hope this is not the case in this instance.

Pooka,

Thanks for your informative and rational post.

I do try to keep my emotions out of this discussion. It is something you have to do when you are dealing with what is a problem concerning physics and not morals.

Politics will creep into any big disaster. What the people on the ground need to do is not let it keep them from their tasks of dealing with the situation. Sometimes this is not easy and I am sure Jindle finally reached the 'If not me, then who?' point.

It is nice to see a politician really dealing with a problem and not caring what anyone thinks, though. I think that is called Leadership.