Focus vs Saturn...
 

Looking for a cheap car for my sister, budget is $4kish.

Found a half way decent looking 2002 Ford Focus with 120k miles on it. A few dents, but its clean with a good interior. Seems to be the super base model with crank windows and manual locks. Looks to have a very recent set of Michelin tire's, new battery, valve cover gasket and fuel rail. Asking $3,500 probably can get it for a bit less. All and all not a bad little car.

We also found a 2002 Saturn for like $1k more my dad and I are going to check out tomarrow. Its supposed to have 70k on it and be mint.

I'd prefer to get her a Japanese car but you can't touch them in that price range unless they have starship mileage on them. Although the newer American cars are pretty decent.

How are the Focus? It seems like a decent little car I can't see much to go wrong on it. I think it has a timing chain to but I could be wrong. I know a bit about Saturns, they are not half bad.

Opinions, anyone got a good deal in CT? :D

Were looking for something with around 100k on it, less than 10 years old, with an auto and AC. Also with a 4 cylinder so its easy to work on and on gas.

both pretty good
 

Hatty,

My good friend the serious auto guy bought a focus for his daughter. Had it about 5 years and now he is still driving it. I used to rent them a lot and liked the ride and interior better than the "upscale" Contours. My buddy says it is basically Mazda 3 with a new skin... He is very happy with it as an around town driver.

I bought a '98 Saturn SC2 ( dual overhead cam) for my daughter last year. Better mileage than the Focus. Somewhat cheaper build quality. All "S" series Saturns had a issue with oil control rings getting plugged up and then they burn oil. It hasn't hit our car yet. It burns less than a quart in 3000 miles and gets over 30 mpg. Sunroofs are another weak point. They can get close to 40 with some care. There is a guy named Rich Pin that has about 60 youtube videos on how to fix just about anything. Check out www.saturnfans.com. Parts are pretty cheap and plentiful. It is pretty easy to work on. The Saturn has a timing chain, no belt to change.

So I would say look and see which one is better maintained. Check the Saturn for existing oil burning.

Chuck

I would vote for the focus but have not any actual experience with either.

The Focus is the better built car. Extra points if its hatchback.. mini SUV. But like Schmidt said, one is probably taken care of better than the other.

Just a shot in the dark - but how much are used VW bug diesels - and are they even available?

Probably astronomical $s - but as I said - just a shot in the dark in ideas for good mpg too.....

My dad refuses to consider a VW, they are satan's spawn to him.

Mazda would be my first choice. Generally good looking, reliable, fun to drive.

Focus 2nd

If I had to do domestic with that budget, and was conscious of fuel mileage, I'd go for the Buick-Olds with the 3.8 V6.

I'd probably go for the focus, or, a mazda as has been mentioned....they seem to be pretty reliable.

Not going to go with a MB? :D My sister has a 190e and loves it.....I love it too, it is a fun car!! Can actually do drifts with it, can't do that too easily in a W126.....

The wife & I were looking for a car for our daughter with the same budget. We were looking for Toyota's, Nissan's, Honda's. They were aall way overpriced. Mostly cause the kids buy them up.
We eventually found a 2003 Kia Optima SE V6 for $3500. it's a great looking car. Lots of options and safe with side air bags.

I will never buy a used Ford again. Replaced the head gasket in my son's Ford Taurus 3 times! A couple of times it was his fault, letting it overheat but damn! everytime it got a little hot the head gasket crapped out.
Not to mention it took all day to take out the radiator cause you have to drop it down taking inumerable brackets and mounts off. You even have to take the front side body panels off!
What a pita.

My brother had a Saturn. That was a great car. Never had to do any major repairs on it.

We did see some Mazda & Mitsubishi's in the price range buy I couldn't get to see them in time.

Best advice is to be patient and don't settle. It might take a while to get the car you want.
We went to see one car listed on craigslist and the car we saw wasn't the same car in the pictures! The dumbass even spray painted the trunk!

Danny

I did have a '96 Contour with the 2.0L Z-tec engine. Mine had 214K on it when I sold it a few months back. That engine did not use much if any oil . I used synthetic oil and ran 7,500 to 10,000 between changes.
It does have a timing belt. I think the belt is rated at 80K or so. I ran mine to 126K on the first belt. The next belt snapped at 49K. I guess they are a semi-interference motor. I was going slow, so no damage. Or maybe a slightly tapped valve. The motor ran fine after that.
I did test drive a used Focus. It seemed OK. It was designed to replace the Ford Escort and the lower model Contours. Ford abandoned the mid sized cars till they came out with the Fussion. I think the first year Focus, 2000 had a bunch of problems or recalls. The second year saw a dramatic increase in quality.
I would guess it will be an auto trans. I don't know what trans they used in it. The early Contours auto trans had some problems. I have a long story on mine. Basically, the design of the trans was good. A supplier shipped some warped plates. Ford had a repair bulletin on it, but not a recall. I had the plate replaced, but the dealership FUBARed the tranny. Later I had a Ford rebuilt trans put in at 85K. That trans was still going good at 214K. You can't replace the filter in it. The trans oil was easier to change than the motor oil. I'd change it once a year.
I haven't driven or had any direct expreincec with Saturns. Friends have had them, mainly women, and the loved them. One had her engine rebuilt at least once. I think she had 200K or more on it at that time. I would somewhat worry that the brand is now defunct.

I've got nothing but anecdotal, but one of our seasonal sales reps has had a Focus hatchback for 6+ years and still loves it. I believe he's at 150K now, with little more than routine maintenance. He had always had Escorts prior for his long distance driving, had very good luck with them and has said on a number of occasions the quality and handling improvement from the 'Scorts to his Focus is glaring.

Another family friend bought an inaugural (for the U.S.) 2000 Focus wagon to use as his shop car for his machine shop/microscope service and repair business with regular trips throughout the northeast from eastern PA to NY/NJ to northern ME. Sold his business 4 years ago and retired to NC but kept his wagon for a knockabout car, even though he didn't really need it, because he really liked it and its utility.

Essentially useless information for you, but definitely two satisfied Focus owners if you're keeping track.

Even though I've generally heard pretty good things about Saturns, I can't say that I know anyone who has one. Which is the problem for Saturn.

I had a 2000 Focus with 169k on it and it ran pretty well. The air was still ice cold and the motor sounded good. It had the little 2.0 SPI motor in it. I am convinced you can get a much better deal on it, as I paid $1k for mine and it just needed a new coil. Beware though, this car has NO power! I think it had 110hp, so it had to work hard to go up a hill. I should have kept it, but I sold it to a customer and his teenage daughter destroyed it in a matter of months. I also have a friend who's family are Saturn people. Based on my observations, they seem to be good cars. I however would pick the Ford because I am just an anti GM, Ford kinda guy.

MY vote is Focus SVT! You might find and '02 in that price range.

Remember Ford will still have product support in the coming years.

KIA or Hyundai.....both better, much better cars..

If looking at a Focus, try to find one with the DOHC Zetec engine. The base models with the SPI motors have a tendency to drop valve seats which usually takes out the entire engine. About the only thing that goes wrong with the Zetec is the valve cover gasket leaks oil onto the thermostat housing which causes a coolant leak if left alone too long. Neither one is a particularly difficult repair. One other potential problem is the timing belt tensioner failing and shredding the timing belt. Best to simply replace the tensioner and idler when replacing the timing belt. Certain model years had recalls for the rear wheel bearings and fuel pumps, but those were years ago and should have been repaired by now.

Focus uses the 4F27E transmission, not too much goes wrong with them. The Contour transmission referred to above is a CD4E; totally different unit. The CD4E has to be removed and the case halves split to replace the filter, the 4F27E has a conventional oil pan at the bottom.

The SVT is a fun car, but the clutch parts were redesigned along the way, and if a clutch replacement is needed, it might be necessary to replace the dual mass flywheel ($$$$) since the redesigned clutch parts do not fit the old flywheel. Another expensive thing that goes wrong on the SVT is the IMRC actuator going bad (if it's not the plastic cam on the intake manifold) causing a check engine light. Also, unlike the regular Focus, the SVT engine is an interference design, so keep on top of the timing belt replacement.

Dropped valve seats, yes. Death of an entire engine? Not usually...

Cylinder head, piston/ring set, head gasket set w/bolts, and a few other "since we're in here" items, and it was good to go for around $500 and a days work.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...t/DSC00065.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...t/DSC00066.jpg

:)

They dont have much power in an auto, but they're not actually that bad. A 5 speed one would get more MPG's and have more power, but they're harder to find.

I liked the 08 focus that I rented. I wrung it's neck at every opportunity (due to being OVERCHARGED LIKE CRAZY) but the car did well... It cruised at 80 comfortably, had nice AC, decent sound, and appeared to be decently well made.

~Nate

You got lucky, and yes I have seen customers get lucky like that as well. What I have seen is cylinder wall damage due to "stuff" floating around in the cylinder that wasn't supposed to be there. One even had a good sized hole punched into the cylinder wall and a disintegrated piston and connecting rod. Cylinder heads from Ford are over $1000 for that engine.

:)
They're around $250, including all gaskets and head bolts on ebay :)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/REBUILT-2-0-FORD-ESCORT-CYLINDER-HEAD-FITS-1997-2002-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem519326dc8aQQitemZ350361148554QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

No damage to cylinder wall. Cleaned intake up very well (chunkies everywhere), and had the con rod checked... It, and the bearings were good to go. Single new piston and ring set, connected to the old rod was about $80ish...

The car also ended up getting a new timing belt/tensioner/water pump, battery, and a few other things that I cant remember... Cost mabey $450ish in parts now that I'm thinking about it... It "really" wasnt that bad, except I didnt reset the tensioner properly, then had to find the timing (after being 180 out on the first try)
Lucky for me, it's a free running engine. No damage, other then needing ANOTHER new timing belt (oh well)

Anyways, it wasnt too bad at all...
~Nate

My daughter and her husband have two Fords of around that age and both cars are holding up very well. Her husband has NO mechanical ability so not a lot of extra maintenance. I have a 94 Saturn and I would say they aren't built very well although I'm sure the newer ones are a lot better. I got mine because some one my other daughter knew couldn't start it so he gave it to me for free and all it needed was a new starter.:D I just use it to hall my tools back and forth to work so I don't worry to much about all the things that stopped working on it.

Mazda 3's and Ford Focus come off the same assembly line

They do share a chassis but the Mazda 3s are much better cars, about as close to a 3 series as a FWD car can get. Driving my friend's hatchback with 2.3 (NA) and a stick shift it was easy to get power on oversteer without dumping the clutch or anything and with good summer tires and it had very sharp steering. I'd look into a Mazda 3 too Hattie, I dont think their resale is as good as Toyota/Hondas.

I'd look into 2004 Focii if I were you hattie, that's when they dropped the Zetec in favor of Mazda's MZR/Duratec engine.

We looked at a 2002 Saturn something or other today, little round plastic car. It was nice, very very clean only had 83k miles on it. The dealer wanted $5k.

It drove pretty nice, for a little car it didn't ride or handle to bad.

Saw an early 1990's Mercedes wagon in Red Lion, PA for $3999 today. Did not stop though.

I friend of mine had a first year Focus ZX3.The thing was a go cart on the road - best handling FWD car I had driven. Unfortunately a guy in a Dodge Dakota rear ended him. The car was totaled and he suffered a lot of back injuries and is still in pain today. His replacement car?
1996 525 I

My cousins swear by Saturns and have owned them since they first came out and recently bought an AURA. THAT is a great car, but since Saturn is deceased and Opel is being cut loose, good luck getting parts!

Bump; found a 2002 Nissan Sentra. 100,300 miles, fully loaded, auto, brand new tires, brakes, oil, and transmission fluid. $5,100 out the door + tax.

Anything I need to look out for? The car drove real nice, everything seems to work well. The only issue is their is a bit of rust popping up in a few places. Nothing serious its quite minor, but I don't expect to see rust on a newer car. Seems to be a pretty honest car, judging by the rock chips up front I suspect it was a lot of highway miles.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=280674841&dealer_id=2086683&car_year=2002&engine=&fuel=&lastStartYear=1981&sort_ type=priceDESC&systime=&default_sort=priceDESC&drive=&style_flag=1&body_code=0&sownerid=9225984&sell er_type=b&min_price=&color=&model=SENTRA&keywords_display=&advanced=&distance=25&doors=&keywordsrep= &highlightFirstMakeModel=&awsp=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=y&rdm=1277142766083&marketZipError= false&keywordsfyc=&search_type=both&transmission=&max_price=&max_mileage=&end_year=2003&make=NISSAN& start_year=1981&certified=&num_records=25&make2=&address=06460&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearch form&cardist=14&standard=false

I dunno about the Sentra. Try looking them up in Edmunds and in Consumer Reports.

I did have a friend who had one in the 1990's as well as the wife. His was a total POS but he never cared for it and it died of neglect. Hers was a rental car sell off and ran pretty well, but developed cancer pretty quickly. SHe traded it for a Sahara model CJ...

In any case the Sentra is a rental car - in other words a throw away car.
Well at least I think it is...

I am sure you can find a decent W123 for $5100 :D

My mazda 3 was built in Hiroshima, Japan. I highly doubt the Focus is built there. I think the mazda 3 shares more in common with the euro focus.

They share the chassis. The new cars use the same engine too. Ford was smart and are using Mazda's excellent 4 pot engines now.

I bought the wife one and we had hell with the computer. They couldn't find a fix and all the sentras and altimas where doing it. The service mechanic said the 2001-2002 where loaded with electrical gremlins.

Buyer beware on the electrical,
as far as the car goes we loved it . It has a stiff body and drove well. The outer skin is thicker as well. 30+ mpg a little snug inside but fit and finish was good. We paid 12,000 new for the loaded one traded it at 25,000miles for 10,000
5000 seems a little high with the mileage but going through a dealer that's not to bad.

On the computer issue we would step on the throttle and 3 to 5 seconds later it would react not fun when it unexpectedly flings you out into traffic . If you hold the throttle around 1000 rpms it would surge up to 3000 and back to 1000 continuously. I would try to get a background on repairs if possible.