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  #16  
Old 08-19-2010, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Local2ED View Post
Don't know if Ford was unionized at that time but Henry Ford was not union friendly. The typical union haters say unions are no longer needed but can you tell me ANY company today, union or not would double the employee's wages with the idea of the more money they make, they might just spend it on the products their building? Look back at the era Tonkovich is referring to, The strategy worked quite well for Henry Ford.
A funny thing is Mr. Ford didn't feel his" uneducated workforce" were overpaid For their "low skilled, easy" job. Can't deny Mr. Ford didn't know what he was doing, but I'm sure the "experts" on this forum would argue that.
don't you know that the poor, once unemployed and "unnecessary", will serve as excellent slaves, organ donors and ... tasty vittles.

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  #17  
Old 08-19-2010, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by cmbdiesel View Post
Somehow, ole Billiebob usurping The Who for his nefarious right leaning agenda just doesn't sit well with me....
Keith was the only one that took the lyric to "My Generation" seriously.
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  #18  
Old 08-19-2010, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by 10fords View Post
I think what you guys are missing here is that Ford raised his wages to double the norm without being told he had to do it by the government or the unions. Local2Ed- was there a UAW at that time, and if so did Ford employees belong to it? I have read numerous books about Ford, but I don't recall what the union status was at that point in history.
The Union didnt come into effect for the automobile manufacturers until around 1932.
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  #19  
Old 08-19-2010, 01:00 PM
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As I recall, there were not too many car manufactures (none as far as I can tell) who had any type of mass production to keep up with FORD. As I recall, he did not have any foreign competition either. It was a simple business decision. Make more cars, sell more cars, make more money. I do not think the same business model will work today. There is way too much competition. Companies have to look for every penny to make the business work.
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  #20  
Old 08-19-2010, 01:44 PM
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Henry Ford offered a daily wage of $5 a day. This was double the going wage in the area. But two things were made clear from the start. You were going to work for the money, and the high wage did not kick in until you had served a six month probation. Until then you were paid a bit less than the going wage in the area.

According to records kept at Ford the number of workers who lasted six months and received the high wage was zero. Somehow none of them survived the probation period. Everyone was fired for some reason or another after about five months or so.

The workers did not take kindly to this, but what are you going to do? Well, the workers at Ford formed a Union. Ford knew how to deal with this and when the Union went on strike he had a few of them mowed down with machine-guns. I guess 'ol Henry went to the Montgomery Burns School of Employee Relations or something.

After that did nothing to stop the Union Ford sort of gave up. Sometimes a guy just can't win.
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  #21  
Old 08-19-2010, 05:41 PM
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Another thought

Ford's Assembly Line
Always seeking lower costs and greater efficiency, Ford introduced moving assembly belts in his factories in 1913, and this led to a huge increase in production. Although Ford is often credited with the idea, the concept of the moving assembly line and its development came from some of his best employees. Model T sales passed 250,000 in 1914.
Believing that well-paid laborers are the best consumers, he hiked his employees’ wages from $2.34 for a nine-hour day to $5.00 for an eight-hour day. The move proved to be highly profitable. Instead of constant employee turnover, the most expert mechanics flocked to the company, raising productivity and reducing training costs. Ford called it the "wage motive." By 1916, as the price of the Model T fell to $360, sales reached 472,000.
By 1918, half of all the cars in America were Model Ts. By 1924, 15 million had been sold, Ford had become a multimillionaire, and Detroit was the auto-manufacturing capital of the United States. In 1928, Ford created the Model A to replace the Model T, and four years later introduced the V-8 engine. By 1932, Ford was producing one-third of all the automobiles in the world.


Read more at Suite101: Henry Ford Pays Auto Workers $5 a Day: Well-Paid Employees Make the Best Customers http://www.suite101.com/content/henry-ford-pays-auto-workers-5-a-day-a185832#ixzz0x5fIokPm
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  #22  
Old 08-19-2010, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Local2ED View Post
Look back at the era Tonkovich is referring to, The strategy worked quite well for Henry Ford.
What do these highlights have in common? Past Tense. You can pay your employees whatever you want. It can cost you more to produce than your competitor. Guess what? I don't have to buy your overpriced products when there is cheaper. Just like with GM. You cost too much and your quality too low? No thanx. I'll buy a Honda. The rest of the world can see that too.

Yes, I know we have to worship that saying about those who do not know history, blah, blah, blah. One thing to note, just because you do EXACTLY the same thing doesn't guarantee the same outcome. Why? Because conditions have changed drastically.
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  #23  
Old 08-19-2010, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
What do these highlights have in common? Past Tense. You can pay your employees whatever you want. It can cost you more to produce than your competitor. Guess what? I don't have to buy your overpriced products when there is cheaper. Just like with GM. You cost too much and your quality too low? No thanx. I'll buy a Honda. The rest of the world can see that too.

Yes, I know we have to worship that saying about those who do not know history, blah, blah, blah. One thing to note, just because you do EXACTLY the same thing doesn't guarantee the same outcome. Why? Because conditions have changed drastically.
Cue the ninny.
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  #24  
Old 08-19-2010, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Local2ED View Post
Cue the ninny.
Yes, disagreement with you is a sign of stupidity, isn't it? Glad we have you to show us the path.

But I suppose, we can't expect much more of someone of your caliber.
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  #25  
Old 08-19-2010, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
What do these highlights have in common? Past Tense. You can pay your employees whatever you want. It can cost you more to produce than your competitor. Guess what? I don't have to buy your overpriced products when there is cheaper. Just like with GM. You cost too much and your quality too low? No thanx. I'll buy a Honda. The rest of the world can see that too.

Yes, I know we have to worship that saying about those who do not know history, blah, blah, blah. One thing to note, just because you do EXACTLY the same thing doesn't guarantee the same outcome. Why? Because conditions have changed drastically.

I wish more people would look back at higher wages equalling quality. I have to tell you the offshore Engineers we have used are 1/3 the cost and they are worth about 1/3 of that. every project that goes to low cost centers I have worked on, after the fact to fix of course, was late over budget, and terribly poor quality. why, because we let low cost engineers fumble through things beyond their grasp until it all falls apart, then higher cost engineers end up trying to fix what they did which is more akin to turd polishing than actual design. I dont know how the bean counters keep justifying low cost design centers but they have never been that in my 15 years dealing with offshore design. if they paid a little more upfront, they would always get better results in my experience. I currently have a guy modelling for me in a low cost center. they quoted 3 weeks work to do something, if I had had the time, I could do in 3-4 days. And on top of that he is already late and I already anticipate having to redo the work myself when it all hits the fan. Unfortunately managers think a butt in a seat is the same everywhere, so we go down the failure path yet again to prove a already clear point.
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  #26  
Old 08-19-2010, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
What do these highlights have in common? Past Tense. You can pay your employees whatever you want. It can cost you more to produce than your competitor. Guess what? I don't have to buy your overpriced products when there is cheaper. Just like with GM. You cost too much and your quality too low? No thanx. I'll buy a Honda. The rest of the world can see that too.

Yes, I know we have to worship that saying about those who do not know history, blah, blah, blah. One thing to note, just because you do EXACTLY the same thing doesn't guarantee the same outcome. Why? Because conditions have changed drastically.
well that mercedes you drive was built by highly paid, unionized workers in a country with socialized medicine for all. please explain how that happened. or is it a bad car?
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  #27  
Old 08-20-2010, 12:06 AM
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well that mercedes you drive was built by highly paid, unionized workers in a country with socialized medicine for all. please explain how that happened. or is it a bad car?
Racial superiority?
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  #28  
Old 08-20-2010, 12:51 AM
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Racial superiority?
tasteless.

you can credit the marshall plan, if you wish.
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  #29  
Old 08-20-2010, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by tonkovich View Post
tasteless.

you can credit the marshall plan, if you wish.
,

When did Germany start their automobile industry? Or their steel industry? Or the petro-chemical industry? Or electrical/electronics industry? Pre or post Marshall Plan?
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  #30  
Old 08-20-2010, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by lutzTD View Post
I wish more people would look back at higher wages equalling quality. I have to tell you the offshore Engineers we have used are 1/3 the cost and they are worth about 1/3 of that. every project that goes to low cost centers I have worked on, after the fact to fix of course, was late over budget, and terribly poor quality. why, because we let low cost engineers fumble through things beyond their grasp until it all falls apart, then higher cost engineers end up trying to fix what they did which is more akin to turd polishing than actual design. I dont know how the bean counters keep justifying low cost design centers but they have never been that in my 15 years dealing with offshore design. if they paid a little more upfront, they would always get better results in my experience. I currently have a guy modelling for me in a low cost center. they quoted 3 weeks work to do something, if I had had the time, I could do in 3-4 days. And on top of that he is already late and I already anticipate having to redo the work myself when it all hits the fan. Unfortunately managers think a butt in a seat is the same everywhere, so we go down the failure path yet again to prove a already clear point.
To a point, it does equal higher quality. OTOH, not knowing why they did it makes anything said a guess at best. Why some people buy Evolv or Companion tools and others Craftsman tools is probably because they can't justify the cost difference. I work on my cars so it is a no brainer to me. If you asked my wife, she hardly turns a wrench so a cheapie set works better for her.

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