T Boone Pickens At It Again?

[retmil46]

Got an e-mail from a friend/fellow CRD owner up in Charlotte today. He says that old T Boone is backing a HR bill introduced in Congress, with a provision that would end up forcing all Class 8 OTR trucks to convert to natural gas engines. And there is a federal tax credit of $65K per truck to pay for converting them.

Uhhh, yeah, and who's going to pay for installing the refueling equipment at all the truck stops across the country for refueling these trucks - not to mention running natural gas lines to them in the first place. I'd bet T Boone is more than willing to pick up that business as well, with more government money to boot.

Sounds like he's trying to resurrect part of his "Pickens Plan" from a couple years back - build craploads of wind turbines to generate electricity, which would free up natural gas from power generation, then build the fueling infrastructure and convert millions of vehicles (or force people to buy new ones) to run on natural gas. All with the mantra about what a patriot he was, risking his own money to help us achieve energy independence.

But he rather quietly dropped the wind power part of his program when Cap and Trade stalled out - he said in an interview that the wind power part of his plan would be "unprofitable" without government subsidies. Guess making a profit via our tax money was more important than being a "patriot" and "energy independence".

Here's a thought - instead of wasting all that tax money and time converting millions of vehicles and installing the infrastructure, why not build a slew of GTL plants to convert natural gas into liquid fuel, which can be used by the exisiting infrastructure and vehicles as is? At least two Middle Eastern countries I know of are already building such plants - as it's far easier and cheaper to store and transport liquid fuel than LNG.

I went on the Pickens Plan forum way back when and made the same suggestion. Not surprisingly, I was invited to go elsewhere.

[HuskyMan]

everyone is trying to ride the green train. I'm convinced the environment has very little to do with it, it is all about $$$$$$$$ and more $$$$$$$.

[Chas H]

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

everyone is trying to ride the green train. I'm convinced the environment has very little to do with it, it is all about $$$$$$$$ and more $$$$$$$.

I gotta agree with you on this. 'Specially if it involves Pickens.

[tonkovich]

Originally Posted by Chas H

I gotta agree with you on this. 'Specially if it involves Pickens.

isn't he that honorable man who sponsored the "swift boat veterans for (sic) truth"?

i definitely would not buy a used car from that man.

[Chas H]

Originally Posted by tonkovich

isn't he that honorable man who sponsored the "swift boat veterans for (sic) truth"?

Yes, he is. And a bigger group of liars would be hard to find.

[kknudson]

Well I agree with his concept of converting vehicles, not just trucks to NG.

BUT I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE GOV FORCING IT.

Getting the gov involved improves the probablity of it being a boondoggle by 10,ooo %, ethanol being a perfect example. Great as an additive, terrible as a base fuel (here).

I don't see us converting all vehicles, just some.
NG is a plentiful, clean fuel we should use it where it makes sense.

Note there is probably a NG line close to every station in the US, although the station infrastructure would be expensive.
Interesting that for the electrics, the market is building recharging stations, I assume there is some subsidies, I don't know how much.

I don't believe mankind is responsible for global warming, we aren't making it better, but we aren't the root cause.

That said we do need to clean up our act and diversify fuel sources (for other reasons).

PS I think Diesel and Bio Diesel is a better mid range solution, but again diversity is an important part of what we need to do.

[kknudson]

OH and yes T boone is talking his book(what he owns a lot of), he has huge NG holdings, and with the price now a days he's getting killed.

If you want to reduce oil consumption, there is only one way to do it; increase the price of oil to the point where the alternatives become cost competitive and let the market sort it out. We are not going to see any serious energy diversity when gas/diesel is $3/gal at the pump, get it up to $5-6 and you will see people putting serious money into alternatives.

[Billybob]

Originally Posted by kknudson

Interesting that for the electrics, the market is building recharging stations, I assume there is some subsidies, I don't know how much.

On top of the $7000 purchase subsidy, worth about $2300 (installed by IBEW members of course):

General Motors will offer the first 4,400 buyers of its Chevrolet Volt the option of having a 240-volt charging station installed in their home when the car is released this fall, the company said Thursday.


The Volt is General Motors’ upcoming plug-in electric car that promises a range of 40 miles on electricity alone before one is forced to switch to gas for fuel. GM refers to it as an extended-range electric vehicle, or EREV, instead of a hybrid because the gas engine generator is not directly tied to the car’s transmission.

The 240-volt charging stations will be free to Volt buyers; the cost will be covered by a grant from the Department of Energy under the Transportation Electrification Initiative funds inside the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act.

[Billybob]

Originally Posted by Craig

If you want to reduce oil consumption, there is only one way to do it; increase the price of oil to the point where the alternatives become cost competitive and let the market sort it out. We are not going to see any serious energy diversity when gas/diesel is $3/gal at the pump, get it up to $5-6 and you will see people putting serious money into alternatives.

What is the would be the value of reducing oil consumption if the net result was a 100% increase in energy costs.

[Chas H]

How about we synthesize NG into both diesel and gasoline?
http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/21261/

This is not a technical problem; as long as petro oil is the cheapest energy source available it will be used for the majority of transportation.

[Emmerich]

Originally Posted by Chas H

Yes, he is. And a bigger group of liars would be hard to find.

That would be the group of HUNDREDS that all had the same view of Kerry? How would you get that many people to agree on anything? And if it was lies, why did Pickens not have to pay the million dollar reward to anybody that could prove any of the Kerry allegations false?

[Emmerich]

I am not fan of Pickens but wind power is a joke and is totally underwater as an investment. Would you sink big bucks into a technology that REQUIRED government help just to break even? That is really dumb. Pickens is not dumb. And being successful is not an automatic implication of dishonesty, as the liberals seem to think.

[retmil46]

Originally Posted by Billybob

On top of the $7000 purchase subsidy, worth about $2300 (installed by IBEW members of course):

General Motors will offer the first 4,400 buyers of its Chevrolet Volt the option of having a 240-volt charging station installed in their home when the car is released this fall, the company said Thursday.


The Volt is General Motors’ upcoming plug-in electric car that promises a range of 40 miles on electricity alone before one is forced to switch to gas for fuel. GM refers to it as an extended-range electric vehicle, or EREV, instead of a hybrid because the gas engine generator is not directly tied to the car’s transmission.

The 240-volt charging stations will be free to Volt buyers; the cost will be covered by a grant from the Department of Energy under the Transportation Electrification Initiative funds inside the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act.

Guess they had to distinguish it from the Japanese hybrids somehow - it's still a hybrid, this type of setup referred to as a "series" hybrid. The Prius would be closer to a "parallel" hybrid - gas and electric both capable of propelling the vehicle - although it also has some "series" capabilities.

Just wonderful. More of our tax money being spent to prop up Government Motors, and help 4400 people buy themselves a new car, so they can enjoy the "smug" factor of owning a hybrid - not that I agreed with the tax credits for buying any of the other hybrids in years past either. I've owned an electric pickup since '94, and when I bought and upgraded it, I used MY OWN MONEY.

Back in the 90's when I kept track of the electric vehicle movement, many groups were pushing in their states for a tax credit for those purchasing/converting vehicles to electric. The standard response from their elected reps seemed to be "Why should other taxpayers be forced to buy YOU a new car?". My thoughts exactly.