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  #91  
Old 09-06-2010, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MTI View Post
If one measures "doing petty good" by material things, I suppose you could be.
How do you measure it without a quantifiable scale?

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  #92  
Old 09-06-2010, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Sev View Post
Since this is the quote you decided to take, out of context, let's look at it. It basically amounts to an ad-hominem argument fallacy--a fallacy in which one insults someone forwarding an argument, rather than speaking to the argument they are making. Thus, it has to be dismissed.

As for ensnaring, in what way does rationally convincing people of your ideas constitute ensnarement?

"Righteous capitalist" is another ad hominem fallacy.
you might address the various essays which make up that website, which support the above conclusion, o great rationalist. facts, followed by a logical conclusion. someone of your professed intellect might be interested in.... learning more? or not.

p.s. i did not attack you. i just pointed out that your hero was few bricks shy of a load, so you might reconsider relying on her and quoting her... uh, verbiage.
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  #93  
Old 09-06-2010, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim View Post
How do you measure it without a quantifiable scale?
Why does it have to be measured? Too often, a measurement is merely to confirm that it exceeds someone or something else.
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  #94  
Old 09-06-2010, 04:24 PM
Craig
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Money is a good way to keep score, if you want to keep score. In practice, once you have enough to meet your needs it doesn't matter.
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  #95  
Old 09-06-2010, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MTI View Post
Why does it have to be measured? Too often, a measurement is merely to confirm that it exceeds someone or something else.
I suppose that is the problem of measurement. It is finite and the answer is clear.
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  #96  
Old 09-21-2010, 10:19 PM
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I finally read the book (actually listened to the audio book while driving). He is basically just making the case for multiverses and the strong anthropic principle. He includes some explanation of relativity and QED, but nothing too deep. He does a decent job of explaining Feynman diagrams, etc. without including any of the messy math. He takes the expected shots at the "intelligent design" wackos and explains that no "god" is necessary to "start" or maintain this type of model of the universe. We've heard it all before, but it's worth reading.
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  #97  
Old 09-21-2010, 10:42 PM
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The non-necessity of a deity is not proof of his nonexistence. Hawking knows this I'm sure, but plenty of people do actually argue for the necessity of a deity.
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  #98  
Old 09-22-2010, 12:59 AM
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The non-necessity of a deity is not proof of his nonexistence. Hawking knows this I'm sure, but plenty of people do actually argue for the necessity of a deity.
Well, how else do you threaten someone?
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  #99  
Old 09-22-2010, 01:16 AM
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Has anyone here ever listened to 'Alan Watts'..?
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  #100  
Old 09-22-2010, 07:48 AM
Craig
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The non-necessity of a deity is not proof of his nonexistence. Hawking knows this I'm sure, but plenty of people do actually argue for the necessity of a deity.
Of course, but if a "deity" is not required it has no place in science; I think that was his point. People can believe whatever they like, but they can't use the existence on the universe as "evidence" to support their belief systems. As someone said, I have no need of that hypothesis.
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  #101  
Old 09-22-2010, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig View Post
but they can't use the existence on the universe as "evidence" to support their belief systems.
I'm not sure since it was long ago that I took that class but I think that is the "argument by design" aka Teleological Argument.

  1. Nature exhibits complexity, order, adaptation, purpose and/or beauty.
  2. The exhibited feature(s) cannot be explained by random or accidental processes, but only as a product of mind.
  3. Therefore, there exists a mind that has produced or is producing nature.
  4. A mind that produces nature is a definition of "God."
  5. Therefore, God exists.
Obviously, the key problem is in #2. It cannot be explained by humans with current knowledge. It does not take into account that we have a lot of explanations today that we didn't have 1000 years ago. Who knows what explanations we will have in another 2000 years.
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  #102  
Old 09-22-2010, 08:02 AM
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Read "The God Delusion," he does a pretty good job of addressing those arguments; but he is a little heavy handed.

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