More bad news on US education - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cmac2012 · #1 12-09-2010, 06:11 PM

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/education/july-dec10/duncan_12-07.html

(video and transcript)

A new global survey of school achievement shows U.S. students falling behind much of the rest of the world in reading, science, and math. The daunting results found in the Program on International Student Achievement, or PISA, test showed 15-year-olds in more than a dozen countries, including South Korea and Poland, outperform American students.

Education Secretary Arne Duncan called the results a massive wakeup call.

U.S. EDUCATION SECRETARY ARNE DUNCAN:

I think it's my job to tell the truth.

And whether you look at these recent PISA results, which we are mediocre at best, whether you look at a 25 percent dropout rate in this country, whether you look at, in one generation, that we have fallen from first to ninth in the world in college graduates, by any measure, we're not doing what we need to be doing to keep America great.

And I'm just absolutely convinced we have to educate our way to a better economy. That's the only way we're going to get there. This is the best long-term investment we can make. And so I think it's my job to be the truth-teller.

And the only way we get better is to look in the mirror, assess our strengths and weaknesses, and figure out where we need to go. But if we run around saying, we're number one, we're number one, and we're not, that doesn't help us get where we need to go.

dynalow · #2 12-09-2010, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/education/july-dec10/duncan_12-07.html

(video and transcript)

A new global survey of school achievement shows U.S. students falling behind much of the rest of the world in reading, science, and math. The daunting results found in the Program on International Student Achievement, or PISA, test showed 15-year-olds in more than a dozen countries, including South Korea and Poland, outperform American students.

Education Secretary Arne Duncan called the results a massive wakeup call.

U.S. EDUCATION SECRETARY ARNE DUNCAN:

I think it's my job to tell the truth.

And whether you look at these recent PISA results, which we are mediocre at best, whether you look at a 25 percent dropout rate in this country, whether you look at, in one generation, that we have fallen from first to ninth in the world in college graduates, by any measure, we're not doing what we need to be doing to keep America great.

And I'm just absolutely convinced we have to educate our way to a better economy. That's the only way we're going to get there. This is the best long-term investment we can make. And so I think it's my job to be the truth-teller.

And the only way we get better is to look in the mirror, assess our strengths and weaknesses, and figure out where we need to go. But if we run around saying, we're number one, we're number one, and we're not, that doesn't help us get where we need to go.

I heard someone, maybe Bill Bennett, (he a former Sec. of Educ.) talking recently about a study (Stanford maybe?) that showed when the worst 5 % of teachers were replaced, the results in student performance, (and I don't recall the metric), were a dramatic increase in graduation rates or test scores or something. And he had high praise for Mr. Duncan.

cmac2012 · #3 12-09-2010, 06:23 PM

I had some good and some bad teachers. It does make a big difference. I'm not ready to blame it all on unions but there is a point of diminishing returns on union activity.

buffa98 · #4 12-09-2010, 08:03 PM

TENURE. When you have teachers with that magic word tied to them it is almost impossible to get rid of poor performing teachers.

I am speaking from experience with this issue. At my kids K-5 there is a teacher that her answer for every kid (kindergarden and 1st grade) that cant sit still is "well this child needs a drug to make them settle down" When it was brought to the attention of the school admin of her lack of ability to cope............

You guessed it. Because she is a TENURED teacher that is not a thing we can do. She is responsable for costing a lot of people a LOT of money for testing and psych evals on 5-7 year olds because SHE was going through the change of life and could no longer stand her job. So dope the kids up to the point that they were zombies so SHE could cope.

THe final outcome, place into an administrative position till she got to the 30 year point so she could retire.

What a load of *****.

kerry · #5 12-09-2010, 08:04 PM

Principals in DPS are given bonuses for increasing their graduation rates. Brilliant move. What do you think those principals tell their teachers? "Quit giving so many F's"
They really should be be giving bonuses to teachers for giving F's.

elchivito · #6 12-09-2010, 08:25 PM

My state has not had tenure for many years. It's not universal, as some would have you believe. When a teacher signs his or her third contract, they are considered "continuing" rather than probationary, and there are a few more hoops administrators need to jump through before getting rid of an unperforming teacher. It's certainly not impossible though, and I've seen it happen quite a few times in 30+ years, participated in the process as an administrator more than once. It does provide a modicum of job security, but doesn't guarantee it.
It's a hazard of the job that teachers will always get the total blame for underperforming students, and they do bear considerable responsibility, without question. What I wonder is why parents are never held accountable? I witnessed household after household where there were no reading materials available, where I was met with blank stares by the simple question "do you read to or with your child?" I saw kids on a daily basis who came to school poorly dressed and not fed breakfast. Their parents were "too busy" to feed them in the morning, or made excuses for them. "She sleeps too late, and doesn't have time or want to eat breakfast." Nonsense. In my opinion, a parent who would let a child out of the house without a good breakfast is guilty of child neglect.
Read to them
Put them to bed on time, and get them up early. You're tired? Too bad. You're the grownup.
see that they're clean and appropriately dressed.
FEED them BREAKFAST
Just try teaching a sleepy, hungry kid anything meaningful. I dare you.
Blame tenure all you want. Nothing will change until parents JOIN teachers in an effort to educate their kids instead of laying blame for their failures and otherwise being absent from their kids' education.

t walgamuth · #7 12-09-2010, 08:48 PM

agreed. School systems can get rid of poor teachers, but the administrators need to grow some cojones and most have none. It is the job of the administrators to tell teachers how they need to improve and then come back and tell them again if they do not improve and after the fourth time they can fire them.

I cannot believe that any self respecting teachers association would defend a lousy teacher in such proceedings, but it is the administrator's jobs to initiate dismissal process.

kerry · #8 12-09-2010, 08:54 PM

Administrators at my wife's school have absolutely no trouble getting rid of teacher's they don't like. There is little correlation between the ones they get rid of and poor teachers. There is a high correlation between the ones they fire and teachers who speak their minds in public.

Hatterasguy · #9 12-09-2010, 09:38 PM

I view it as an administration and cultural problem. Unfortunately the problem won't get fixed because the only way the politicians know how to fix something is to throw money at it. This won't work.

cmac2012 · #10 12-09-2010, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

My state has not had tenure for many years. It's not universal, as some would have you believe. When a teacher signs his or her third contract, they are considered "continuing" rather than probationary, and there are a few more hoops administrators need to jump through before getting rid of an unperforming teacher. It's certainly not impossible though, and I've seen it happen quite a few times in 30+ years, participated in the process as an administrator more than once. It does provide a modicum of job security, but doesn't guarantee it.
It's a hazard of the job that teachers will always get the total blame for underperforming students, and they do bear considerable responsibility, without question. What I wonder is why parents are never held accountable? I witnessed household after household where there were no reading materials available, where I was met with blank stares by the simple question "do you read to or with your child?" I saw kids on a daily basis who came to school poorly dressed and not fed breakfast. Their parents were "too busy" to feed them in the morning, or made excuses for them. "She sleeps too late, and doesn't have time or want to eat breakfast." Nonsense. In my opinion, a parent who would let a child out of the house without a good breakfast is guilty of child neglect.
Read to them
Put them to bed on time, and get them up early. You're tired? Too bad. You're the grownup.
see that they're clean and appropriately dressed.
FEED them BREAKFAST
Just try teaching a sleepy, hungry kid anything meaningful. I dare you.
Blame tenure all you want. Nothing will change until parents JOIN teachers in an effort to educate their kids instead of laying blame for their failures and otherwise being absent from their kids' education.

I was fortunate to grow up in the 'stay at home mom' era - it helped that my dad was making good money building houses. When I was 7 and 8 my mother read a series of books to me - "The Golden Stallion (insert verb - Returns, etc.)." In addition to filling me with imagery of the world, grammar skills were implanted. My cohorts in Jr. High marveled that I aced every English test. I didn't really understand it. I would just say the sentences (with blanks to fill in) to myself, and whatever sounded right was the correct answer.

Local2ED · #11 12-09-2010, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffa98

TENURE. When you have teachers with that magic word tied to them it is almost impossible to get rid of poor performing teachers.

I am speaking from experience with this issue. At my kids K-5 there is a teacher that her answer for every kid (kindergarden and 1st grade) that cant sit still is "well this child needs a drug to make them settle down" When it was brought to the attention of the school admin of her lack of ability to cope............

You guessed it. Because she is a TENURED teacher that is not a thing we can do. She is responsable for costing a lot of people a LOT of money for testing and psych evals on 5-7 year olds because SHE was going through the change of life and could no longer stand her job. So dope the kids up to the point that they were zombies so SHE could cope.

THe final outcome, place into an administrative position till she got to the 30 year point so she could retire.

What a load of *****.

Maybe parents should deliver a disaplinned child to school instead of expecting the teachers to do it for them?

pj67coll · #12 12-09-2010, 10:16 PM

Teachers can't achieve ****, when the raw material is dross.

- Peter.

MTUpower · #13 12-09-2010, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

My state has not had tenure for many years. It's not universal, as some would have you believe. When a teacher signs his or her third contract, they are considered "continuing" rather than probationary, and there are a few more hoops administrators need to jump through before getting rid of an unperforming teacher. It's certainly not impossible though, and I've seen it happen quite a few times in 30+ years, participated in the process as an administrator more than once. It does provide a modicum of job security, but doesn't guarantee it.
It's a hazard of the job that teachers will always get the total blame for underperforming students, and they do bear considerable responsibility, without question. What I wonder is why parents are never held accountable? I witnessed household after household where there were no reading materials available, where I was met with blank stares by the simple question "do you read to or with your child?" I saw kids on a daily basis who came to school poorly dressed and not fed breakfast. Their parents were "too busy" to feed them in the morning, or made excuses for them. "She sleeps too late, and doesn't have time or want to eat breakfast." Nonsense. In my opinion, a parent who would let a child out of the house without a good breakfast is guilty of child neglect.
Read to them
Put them to bed on time, and get them up early. You're tired? Too bad. You're the grownup.
see that they're clean and appropriately dressed.
FEED them BREAKFAST
Just try teaching a sleepy, hungry kid anything meaningful. I dare you.
Blame tenure all you want. Nothing will change until parents JOIN teachers in an effort to educate their kids instead of laying blame for their failures and otherwise being absent from their kids' education.

X1000

Parents of elementary age children are the primary determinate of the failure or success of the children.

buffa98 · #14 12-09-2010, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Local2ED

Maybe parents should deliver a disaplinned child to school instead of expecting the teachers to do it for them?

As the risk of getting a load for this statement I will still type it.

I defy anyone to show me a "Disciplined" 5-7 year old. I dont care how well behaved the child is, At that age I dought any kids can remain backboard stright for the 45 min of class. Remember I am talking Kindergarden to 2nd grade.

I agree with what you are saying there are more than a few in my kids school that need to find out what the belt can also be used for. Along with what soap taste like

.

But Back on topic.

elchivito- I agree with the breakfast statement. And not the sugared up cereral either. Mine get cereal maybe two out of five days, the others they are being abused by being forced to eat eggs

.

elchivito · #15 12-09-2010, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

X1000

Parents of elementary age children are the primary determinate of the failure or success of the children.

Perfectly said. I can remember in elementary school having the wrath of god fall on my head when my parents came home from conferences with a bad report, and they got them pretty often in my case. Nowadays, parent conferences are a breeze, because only the parents you DON'T need to see show up. You get to sit and schmooze with parents about how great their kids are, and the reason their kids are so great is because their parents SHOW UP for conferences and are taking an active role in their education. There is a nearly direct, 1:1 correlation between student success and parent participation. It's the rare, brilliant kid who excels in school in SPITE of having bums for parents.