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  #1  
Old 01-29-2011, 04:51 AM
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Breakthrough promises $1.50 per gallon synthetic gasoline with no carbon emissions

http://www.gizmag.com/breakthrough-promises-150-per-gallon-synthetic-gasoline-with-no-carbon-emissions/17687/

hmmmm

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  #2  
Old 01-29-2011, 06:50 AM
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Hey James,
Interesting find.
Doing a rough back of the envelope type calc, the biggest stumbling block is that it will require a very large fuel storage. The polymer will only store say 8% hydrogen. You would require about 200 gallons of storage of fresh polymer beads & a similar storage for spent beads. Thats like 400 gallons of storage. That would be the trunk & the back seat gone. The energy storage density of batteries is better that that.
Give them time & I am sure they will improve things. Just dont go holding your breath waiting !!
Nothing would make me happier than seeing the worlds dependence on oil diminish. The Arabs could then go back to eating dates & chasing camels instead of fighting.
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  #3  
Old 01-29-2011, 09:00 AM
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As much as I would like to see it work, it won't. Big Oil won't let it happen unless they can make more money with it than they do now. The only way we can change this is to limit the term of congress and get more people in congress that cares more about us then they do themself.
I'm sorry, I just had to vent.

Paul
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  #4  
Old 01-29-2011, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by layback40 View Post
Hey James,
Interesting find.
Doing a rough back of the envelope type calc, the biggest stumbling block is that it will require a very large fuel storage. The polymer will only store say 8% hydrogen. You would require about 200 gallons of storage of fresh polymer beads & a similar storage for spent beads. Thats like 400 gallons of storage. That would be the trunk & the back seat gone. The energy storage density of batteries is better that that.
Give them time & I am sure they will improve things. Just dont go holding your breath waiting !!
Nothing would make me happier than seeing the worlds dependence on oil diminish. The Arabs could then go back to eating dates & chasing camels instead of fighting.

1.50/gallon sounds great 1.50/gal and need 200 gallons sounds not so great. seems they could have mentioned that.......
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  #5  
Old 01-29-2011, 09:44 AM
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If you run a CNG vehicle currently its even cheaper than that on a mpg equivalent basis....
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  #6  
Old 01-29-2011, 10:43 AM
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very interesting. but, good luck getting a foot in the door of selling it.. if you sell the patent to someone they'd bury it... i doubt we'll be seeing this any time soon unfortunatly
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:08 PM
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The vague conspiracy alluded to sounds something like some of the Pogue carb myth. You probably have heard of a mysterious 200 mpg carburetor that was bought up by big oil or bug auto, or somebody.
Somewhere, I got some articles on it. The hype always exceeded the reality. Mr. Pogue, himself never made the 200 mpg claim; only some who tried to market it. The carburetor, itself is no mystery. It used extensive channeling of the fuel/ air mixture to promote near 100% vaporization. In reality, it produced much lower mpg figures, and it was unsuitable for auto engines which vary their speed.

Now, think about it for a minute. Is ANY technology such that one person, and only one person has the secret? ( As an aside--both Germany, and England were working on jet propulsion before WW2, independent of each other--great idea was "invented nearly simultaneously at different places by different people). With the market place being a cut throat enterprise, is it likely that such technology could ever remain a secret and not duplicated?

Maybe this new technology is the promise of a better future. Watch developments, but cast a dubious eye on reports that some mysterious force bought it and now the technology is "gone". Science doesn't work like that.
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  #8  
Old 01-29-2011, 12:10 PM
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Yup, this is silly. I'm sure we could have synthetic liquid fuels based on H2, but not at a competitive cost.
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  #9  
Old 01-29-2011, 01:00 PM
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1) if this was such a big secret, how is it now becoming public y this article, which actually says nothing of value.

2) How can they claim 1.5/gallon fuel when A) the fuel technology does not fully exist yet and B) there is no fuel infrastructure

3) and most importantly, they did NOT even say that the "technology" had even been tested in a real ICE.

Looks like a big hoax.

And just to piss off the morons that believe in global warming, hydrogen cars emit water vapor, which is the #1 greenhouse gas. How warm do you think we would be if we all ended up driving hydrogen cars?
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:49 PM
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Back in the 1980s mercedes experimented a lot with attaching hydrogen to a binding mixture of magnesium and zinc (I think?). They even made a w123 wagon or two that used this technology but they abandoned it before 1990--not sure why. I remember seeing a top gear episode from about 1992 that had a blurb about it
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  #11  
Old 01-29-2011, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Apart from promising a future transportation fuel with a stable price regardless of oil prices, the fuel is hydrogen based and produces no carbon emissions when burned
LOL, really now?
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  #12  
Old 01-29-2011, 03:08 PM
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Its BS.
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  #13  
Old 01-29-2011, 03:29 PM
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With any Hydrogen fuel there are two problems....

The first is how to contain it. Hydrogen is the smallest molecule there is so it can leak out of anything. They appear to have overcome this.

The next is how many BTU's does Hydrogen contain versus an equal volume of anything else?
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  #14  
Old 01-31-2011, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
The vague conspiracy alluded to sounds something like some of the Pogue carb myth. You probably have heard of a mysterious 200 mpg carburetor that was bought up by big oil or bug auto, or somebody.
Somewhere, I got some articles on it. The hype always exceeded the reality. Mr. Pogue, himself never made the 200 mpg claim; only some who tried to market it. The carburetor, itself is no mystery. It used extensive channeling of the fuel/ air mixture to promote near 100% vaporization. In reality, it produced much lower mpg figures, and it was unsuitable for auto engines which vary their speed.

Now, think about it for a minute. Is ANY technology such that one person, and only one person has the secret? ( As an aside--both Germany, and England were working on jet propulsion before WW2, independent of each other--great idea was "invented nearly simultaneously at different places by different people). With the market place being a cut throat enterprise, is it likely that such technology could ever remain a secret and not duplicated?

Maybe this new technology is the promise of a better future. Watch developments, but cast a dubious eye on reports that some mysterious force bought it and now the technology is "gone". Science doesn't work like that.
Many countries knew about jet propulsion. I thinm Itaily had one of the earliest jet engines. I think the Soviets also had jet engines. I think one blew up, and off to the Gulag went that guy. The Soviets were more into ram jets after that.
Germany was funded by the government. England was almost a private endevor by Frank Whittle. The US even stole the evelavator design from him for use on the Bell X-1. The US did have some jet engines during WW2, but they were late to the party. The US was flying the Shooting Star in Italy late in the war. There was one claim of air to air combat.

Somkey Yunick did have a semi-adiabatic engine running in the mid 80's. Popular Science did have a test drive of the vehicle, a Dodge Horizon. I think a later vehicle was a Fiero. I did see a press anouncement of GM to put it in the S-10 in '88. The Popular science article claimed 80 mpg. If you look at the Bork engine, I think it uses a simular concept to preheat the fuel. Honda suppisivly used the concept also of a one way valve in their F1 cars, to gain some fuel imporvement.
Tom
Tom
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  #15  
Old 01-31-2011, 09:47 AM
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I have a book (hand made, not published) on one of the Somkey Yunick cars. It details the trip to Washington, DC to get EPA approval. He was told when he got there that he was wasting his time, that it would not get approval. He got a congressman behind him and finally got the EPA to do the testing on it. It failed. He got more polititions behind him and finally got EPA approval to build 10,000 cars before the end of the year. That was in November so there was only time to build a couple of cars. They were using a Mecury capris (Mustang) with a modifyed Perkins turbo diesel. After more fights he gave up. The cars were tested by some university and got over 90 mpg on the road. The EPA rating was 40 mpg. That is our government. Big oil wins again.

Paul

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