Florida Governor Reject Federal Funds for High Speed Rail

Gov. Rick Scott announced this morning that he's taking a pass on $2.4 billion in federal stimulus money President Obama's administration had earmarked for a high-speed train connecting Orlando and Tampa.

Scott made the announcement in a hastily called news conference where he denounced Obama's budget.

"You don't have to be an economic expert to know when you spend more money than you take in you will fail," Scott said.

No gravy train for Fla.
I'm sure his constituents will love him for that.

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1985 380SE Blue/Blue - 230,000 miles
2012 Subaru Forester 5-speed
2005 Toyota Sienna
2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible
1999 Toyota Tacoma

Actually, economic experts would likely differ with the governor. In a sense, he has criticized every American that has ever had a mortgage or any business that has ever had to take out a captalization loan. As the former head of a healthcare corporation, I'm sure the practice is not foreign to him.

Yeah, he probably did his homework. Houston got a wonderful new light rail system that that cost hundreds of millions and rarely gets used. So little use, that Metro defunded the proposed expansion to other areas late last year - their analysis proved that it cost too much for too few riders.

They work well in Europe and in confined cities, but cities in Texas and Florida cannot consider themselves "confined".

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- Brian


1989 500SEL Euro
1966 250SE Cabriolet
1958 BMW Isetta 600

There may be some differences between a municipal transit system and city to city high speed rail lines.

Tampa to Orlando High-Speed Rail Could Cost $3 Billion More Than Expected

Comparisons to California and other rail projects suggest rail system will cost Florida taxpayers much more than $280 million
January 6, 2011

If the proposed Tampa to Orlando high-speed rail line goes over budget or fails to meet ridership expectations Florida taxpayers could get stuck with a bill of up to $3 billion, according to a new Reason Foundation report.

Long-standing research shows costs are underestimated on nine out of every 10 large passenger rail transportation projects, with cost overruns averaging 45 percent higher than anticipated. If the Tampa-Orlando rail line were to go over budget by 45 percent Florida taxpayers would be on the hook for $1.2 billion more than the $280 million currently forecast.

The Reason Foundation warns that Florida may be miscalculating the costs of high-speed rail by even more than that. Consider that the expected cost of building the first segment of California's high-speed rail line is 111 percent higher than Florida's - $67.8 million per mile compared to $32.1 million per mile in Florida. The costs of the Tampa to Orlando system would be $3 billion more than advertised using California's estimated cost per mile.

The Reason study also flags concerns about ridership numbers. The Florida project is predicted to carry 2.4 million riders annually, which is two-thirds the ridership on the existing Amtrak Acela Express service. The Acela trains serve several big metropolitan areas, including New York, Washington, DC, Boston, Philadelphia, and Baltimore. The population of those cities is approximately eight times the population of the Tampa and Orlando metropolitan areas.

"The risk to Florida taxpayers is likely to be many times greater than current projections for this high-speed rail proposal," said Wendell Cox, author of the report and head of Wendell Cox Consultancy. "History tells us that cost overruns could run into the billions and ridership shortfalls will likely leave taxpayers with an open-ended bill for operating subsidies."

"It's understandable that some are dreaming of flashy high-speed rail trains carrying tourists and residents between the two cities," said Robert Poole, director of transportation at Reason Foundation and a transportation advisor to Governor Rick Scott's administration. "Unfortunately, the numbers just don't add up. When you look at realistic construction costs and operating expenses you see these trains are likely to turn into a very expensive nightmare for taxpayers."

The study says Florida should consider cancelling the high-speed rail project, as Wisconsin and Ohio have recently done. Or, if the rail plan moves forward, the state should ensure that the builder and operator will be financially responsible for all cost overruns and revenue shortages.

Full Report Online

The full study is online here: http://reason.org/studies/show/tampa-to-orlando-high-speed-rail-pl
Reason Foundation's transportation research is here: http://reason.org/areas/topic/transportation
About Reason Foundation

Reason Foundation is a nonprofit think tank dedicated to advancing free minds and free markets. Reason Foundation produces respected public policy research on a variety of issues and publishes the critically acclaimed Reason magazine and its website, Reason.com. For more information, please visit Reason.org.

Serious question. How do they determine who will or will not use this railway? Say you build a rail from Madison to Chicago. Sounds good but have you actually checked how many people will use it or do you just believe that "If you build it, they will come."?

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
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06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
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People usually need nasty traffic and/or high gas prices to encourage use of light rail.

Or exponentially higher cost of vehicle ownership. As previously noted, works in Europe and such, but not sure the US is the right place implement such a system -- not at the projected costs, anyway (IMHO).

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1992 300D 2.5T
1980 Euro 300D (sadly, sold)
1998 Jetta TDI, 132K "Rudy"
1974 Triumph TR6
1999 Saab 9-5 wagon (wife's)

Comparing a "light rail system" to a high speed train is comparing apples and oranges.

A high speed train would be perfect for the US. In Europe because of the lack of space you have to use existing rail roads competing tracks with commuter trains. Here in the US you have all the room to go full speed.

Just politics at work.

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1979 Black on Black, 300CD (sold), 1990 Black 300SE, Silver 1989 Volvo 780, 1988 300CE (vanished by the hands of a girlfriend), 1992 300CE (Rescue).

I have not read the "Reason" study, so I hope that the criticism isn't solely based on comparing the cost per mile in California, or anywhere else, to the projected cost per mile in Florida.

About twenty years ago a high speed rail line was proposed for service between Dallas and Houston. All of it paid for by private investors.

The airlines went nuts and mounted an expensive PR move against it. This is because most of the travel between Houston and Dallas is business traffic which is round trip in one day.

In the end the airlines lost anyway because I-45 was rebuilt and the speed limit was raised to 65 and 70 along much of it. Now you can drive it in the same three hours you have to wait around it the airports for this trip.

I wonder if the airlines might have been in touch with the Gov on this deal?

The tri-rail line from Miami to Palm beach loses money every year and I'm one of the guys that pays for that crap. Nearly every study done about a high speed rail in FL says it will never make money, nor be a good thing. I voted against the gov in the last election, but this is good decision.

Here is the Risk Assessment:

http://reason.org/files/florida_high_speed_rail_analysis.pdf

Wendell Cox, the author of the study appears to have some detractors in the municipal transportation sector.

Intellectual Terrorist?

Not A Big Fan of Public Transit


Big Fan of Big Boxes

His Reputation Precedes Him

Wendell Cox, in a Fox News piece in 2009 commented on the government bailout of GM, saying

"I think the $50 billion might as well be kissed goodbye. I would expect that this is just the beginning," Cox, principal at the Wendell Cox Consultancy, said of the GM deal.

About a year later, Fox Business News Surprised Mr. Cox


Never Met a Mass Transit System He Didn't Like . . . to Bash

Wendell Has Been At it For Awhile