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davidmash · #1 03-29-2011, 12:39 PM

I think it's time to replace the A/C in our home. The systems are mismatched and quite old. The furnace/blower are over 15 and the coil/compressor are about 10-12 or so.

I have received 3 bids so far. Trane has gone from copper to aluminum coils. Is that good? I thought copper was better and how does that work with joining aluminum to copper for the lines? One company gave me a bid for Amana units but I found that Amana was bought by Goodwin who makes the cheap builder stuff.

They all come with 10 yr parts and labor so I am not sure if it's an issue or not. Are Trane and Rudd really that much better than the rest?

One of the bids I received was from the company that put a Trane in my rental property. They say they went to Amana because they stayed with copper. They did very good work and I have not had any issues with the unit (7 yrs now) but I suspect they may not have moved enough Trane to stay a dealer for them and thats why they went to Amana.

The other bid was for a Lenox system.

Any way. Any opinions?

Emmerich · #2 03-29-2011, 01:45 PM

The differences between manufacturers products is minor compared to having a system designed to work in the house properly. It must be sized correctly and plumbed correctly to get proper airflow and return to work. Most builders slap in a generic system using rules of thumb. I would get a HVAC consultant to scope out the house and do the proper calculations.

Emmerich · #3 03-29-2011, 01:47 PM

I added an addition to my house which had a vaulted ceiling and thus could not be tied into the existing HVAC. We added a small heat pump just for that space. We saved money by buying last years model from the a/c contractor.

lorainfurniture · #4 03-29-2011, 02:27 PM

Look in to concord. I have installed many furnace/ ac combos over the years, and have had NO problems.

Typical cost of furnace (80% efficient) is about 5-800 bucks. Ac coil about 150, and condensor about 800-1k.

Figure about 500 in misc parts too (plenum, start collars, etc)

Best of all, concord parts are very inexpensive and easy to replace. (mostly common honeywell controls.)

Skid Row Joe · #5 03-29-2011, 03:04 PM

SEER of 14 or above. Rheem is what I have. I didn't DIY it, btw.

jcyuhn · #6 03-29-2011, 03:09 PM

Just went through this up in Plano - one of our systems died during the last big freeze. The consumer reports types rate Trane/American Standard and Rheem/Ruud tops in reliabilty, with essentially no difference between the two manufacturers. Lennox is down the list a bit. Multiple bidders indicated that Lennox uses more unique parts that make it less likely an appropriate repair part will already be on the service truck, hence longer down time and more return visits to repair.

Other than that, is your current installation acceptable in terms of noise, all rooms equally heated/cooled, etc? If so, just go with a good brand in the same size, installed by a competent company. Make sure you get a matched coil/condensor to achieve the rated efficiency.

catmandoo62 · #7 03-29-2011, 03:52 PM

i'll agree on lennox.my buddies dad has been into heating and cooling for 50 yrs,he just retired and was a carrier dealer,and he said lennox were hell to get parts for,they would not give him a dealer price for parts it was full retail,and they often had to order the parts in. said they weren't necessarily a bad unit just not repairman friendly.

davidmash · #8 03-29-2011, 07:39 PM

I talk to the salesman who did my first install. They are the ones pushing Lenox right now. He said he would do Ruud for the same price. Three ton for about $6,800 installed. The sales guy said he would go Lenox of Rudd but I don't know if he is being honest or is getting a bigger check from Lenox (If so, why would he do either for the same price).

We just moved in to this house in Sep. It's 40 years old and had the original windows (aluminum single pane). We just had them replaced last month with NT windows so I really have not had a chance to see how the house heats/cools with good quality windows.

The house is basically a long rectangle with bed rooms at one end and family room/kitchen at the other. The bed rooms do seem to stay cooler than the kitchen/family room end.

They all want an extra $2k to move the unit from the hall closet (central in the house) to the attic. If I had an extra $2k I would do it but right now it is not in the cards. I wanted it up there for the extra space and so that I could get an extra intake for the return air. I am not sure they can make one in the closet.

I am sooooo confused.

buffa98 · #9 03-29-2011, 09:39 PM

A few questions,

1. Where do you air ducts run? If they are hard ducts(square metal built inbetween the studs of your walls) or an elephant trunk(about 12 inches round and running across your attic) depends on where the unit can be placed. There is a lot of labor and tin work to move an air handler then tie it back into existing ductwork so 2k is not bad.

2. I just had mine replaced 2 years ago(a/c only) it ran me about $2500.
If yours is a heat pump the price sounds about right.

3. SRJ is correct you want the highest seer rating available. That is the efficiency of the unit.

Does the unit work now? ours was 31 years old when it finally gave up, But we dont get near the duration of Heat that you guys do down there. the new one is a ruud. It was a bigger unit but the power bills dropped during the summer because of the increased effectiveness of the unit.

Get a written quote for al the work that is going to be done, For 6800 that should include outside unit, air handler, rewiring new freon lines at the minimum.

Being in TX you are at the mercy of the weather.

Good luck with it.

davidmash · #10 03-29-2011, 10:14 PM

No issue with the two grand. Seems reasonable for the work required but I just don't have the extra cash to do it.

The ducks are hard box ones running down the spine of the house. The quote includes condenser, coils and furnace rated at 14 SEER. A 16 SEER would be an extra two grand and I am not convinced it would be worth it. We have a very small house (1400 sq ft). Lots of shade ...etc. We had a 14 SEER in the rental property and the electric bills on 1500 sq with taller ceilings never went above $250 during the summer.

The existing uni still works but it is quite old and the seer rating is 8 according to one of the quotes. Given the summers here I do not want to be with out AC in Jul for one minute.

The one tantalizing thing about the 16 ser unit is that it's a dual compressor. One 2 ton and a 1 ton. The 1 ton maintains and the 2 ton kicks in when needed.

I would like to know in real dollar amounts what the $$$ difference in energy use would be between the 14 and 16 SEER.

jcyuhn · #11 03-30-2011, 10:12 AM

Quote seems high to me. In February I had a quote for a 5 ton Rheem with coil and 100K furnace for $6500. I think it was a 14 SEER, do recall it was the "cube" model condenser. And that included some duct work. This was standard attic install in a newer home - don't see why a closet install would be significantly more expensive.

davidmash · #12 03-30-2011, 10:31 AM

Actually it is $2k more to have it installed in the attic.

What company did you use for the installation?

jcyuhn · #13 03-30-2011, 01:22 PM

The quote I referenced above was from Kleenairservices http://www.kleenairservices.com/ Have used them in the past with no compliants, they did very nice work. I actually didn't go with that bid, used Total Heat & Air http://totalair.com/ for the install. They did a great job - professional, meticulous, responsive. A big improvement over the previous builder grade hack job.

ah-kay · #14 03-30-2011, 01:51 PM

If it is NOT working then I would consider replacing it. If it is old/matched but works and you want a more efficient system then $6800 is a lot of capital investment to save a few bucks on utilities.

The padding on A/C install is very high. To give you an example, I bought 2 top of the line 4-TON A/C units, 1 matching furance, 2 cooling coils, copper lines, pads and other misc items, drop shipped from Florida to San Diego for about $3.5K.

My $0.02

10fords · #15 03-30-2011, 11:28 PM

AC is a waste of natural resources and is bad for the planet. If you can't coexist with the climate you live in you should move somewhere else. How typically American to alter the climate to make yourself comfortable while others are suffering. You should be ashamed. If you send me $5000 though, I will plant some trees to offset your gluttonous use of fossil fuels so you can remain carbon neutral and use your AC without guilt. I accept cash,Visa, Mastercard, Paypal, or cashiers checks. Hurry before it is too late.