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  #1  
Old 07-15-2011, 11:10 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
Zero
 
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Location: Milford, CT
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850CI...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gfRpw5WX9s&feature=related

In its natural habitat.

Did anyone see last weeks Top Gear where Richard and Clarkson compared an 850CI to a CL600?

The CL600 munched the 850 in a drag race, Mercedes knows how to build a V12!
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  #2  
Old 07-15-2011, 11:38 PM
iwrock's Avatar
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850 CSi please!
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it's automatic.
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  #3  
Old 07-16-2011, 12:11 AM
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M-100's in Dallas
 
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I wouldn't touch anything with 12 cylinders. No way no how. There is not one reliable one out there. I have a 840ci and it rocks.
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  #4  
Old 07-16-2011, 12:24 AM
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Who cares if they are reliable, if you want reliable buy a Civic.

V12's go like stink and are turbine smooth.
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  #5  
Old 07-16-2011, 12:32 AM
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M-100's in Dallas
 
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I guess if money grows on trees, feel free to waste it on over engineered, fragile, electronic toys. I know how to blow money with the best of them, but a V12 isn't worth it in any form.


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Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
Who cares if they are reliable, if you want reliable buy a Civic.

V12's go like stink and are turbine smooth.
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  #6  
Old 07-16-2011, 01:43 AM
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Waste of time/money. You're better off with an 840.
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  #7  
Old 07-16-2011, 09:15 AM
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How bad can the BMW V12's be? In my experience the Mercedes V12's are quite good. My friends S600 has never had an engine problem in the 10 years he has owned it, just an SLS problem once on awhile.
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  #8  
Old 07-16-2011, 09:40 AM
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I see a lot of BMW V12's in the junk yards, But not many Jaguars, or Mercedes Benz. I just bought a Jaguar V12. It's a 75 and I would not call the engine unreliable, it certainly was not the cause of the reliability issues that Jaguar faced in 1975. They ran those engines for more then 30 years and one a number of competitions with them.

Two things common to V12's that can create problems are:

1) In many cases, they are truly two engines welded together so they separate fuel and ignition systems for each bank which have to be balanced (two computers, two water pumps, fuel distributors, etc).
2) There are not many cars that are 'designed' with v12's in mind. Because of this, they become very hard to work on, as everything was an after thought. The same applies to a 6.3.

At first glance, working on my XJ12 will be harder then working on my 6.9, but I do not think that it will be harder or more complicated then my 6.3.
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Last edited by alabbasi; 07-16-2011 at 09:52 AM.
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  #9  
Old 07-16-2011, 10:06 AM
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Yeah the engine bays seem to be a bit tight, but in my experience MB at least makes an effort to let you get in their by making stuff in the way very removable.
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  #10  
Old 07-16-2011, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
How bad can the BMW V12's be? In my experience the Mercedes V12's are quite good. My friends S600 has never had an engine problem in the 10 years he has owned it, just an SLS problem once on awhile.
The only issues I had with the late model V12 engine was the coil packs. It's the rest of the CL, not to do with the engine, that will wear out your wallet.
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  #11  
Old 07-16-2011, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
How bad can the BMW V12's be? In my experience the Mercedes V12's are quite good. My friends S600 has never had an engine problem in the 10 years he has owned it, just an SLS problem once on awhile.
They had a lot of unique parts like 2 separate ECUs with 2 separate electronic TBs. They suffer from a lot of vacuum leak issues which leads to emissions failures among other things. Low mileage M70s are all over the JYs. There is nothing inherently wrong with the V12 configuration. Its BMW's electronics, seals and packaging. The M62 was a much better sorted engine. M60 had its own cylinder bore wear problem but those are mostly off the road by now.

BMW built an E32 prototype with a V16 version of the engine. The radiator had to be moved to the back to make room.
http://www.zorro.milk-maid.de/scans/e32_v16.pdf
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  #12  
Old 07-16-2011, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by super SEC View Post
The only issues I had with the late model V12 engine was the coil packs. It's the rest of the CL, not to do with the engine, that will wear out your wallet.

There he is. Yep, I spent something like $2400 for coilpacks. However, the motor was the strong point. Suspension and electronics...

That car is now a distant memory.
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  #13  
Old 07-16-2011, 07:40 PM
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The late MB 12 isn't exactly what I'd call reliable.... it's known to blow out the oil cooler o-rings if pushed hard. If it weren't that the oil cooler is in the valley captured by the cylinder heads.....you get my point. From what I've seen as a professional mechanic is that all 12's have the same problem. They simply don't get the engineering that goes into more popular, higher production models. They get rushed through development and into market in a desperate attempt to out-do the other guys poorly engineered attempt at a V12.
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  #14  
Old 07-16-2011, 07:50 PM
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I would love to own BMW's M5 or M6 with the V10 engine one day. The only V12 I want to try to own is a Jaguar one in an XJ12 or XJS coupe.
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  #15  
Old 07-17-2011, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duxthe1 View Post
The late MB 12 isn't exactly what I'd call reliable.... it's known to blow out the oil cooler o-rings if pushed hard. If it weren't that the oil cooler is in the valley captured by the cylinder heads.....you get my point. From what I've seen as a professional mechanic is that all 12's have the same problem. They simply don't get the engineering that goes into more popular, higher production models. They get rushed through development and into market in a desperate attempt to out-do the other guys poorly engineered attempt at a V12.
Must be pre 2003. I've never heard of it happening in the later models.
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