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  #1  
Old 07-17-2011, 07:08 PM
Pooka
 
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Dealing with the Debt......

MN had a gov shutdown about two weeks ago. It made me think of a thread that was on here some months ago about how would the states deal with their budget problems.

I suggested they would issue more Bonds to cover the ones they had already issued. It was pointed out to me that bonds are debt, to which I said, "Yup."

MN just announced they would deal with their debt through the issuing of new bonds. Republicans there are not sure if they should laugh or cry because their big deal was NO NEW TAXES! However, they also said they would be willing to talk about taxes if their social programs were enacted first, but they made no promises.

The Gov told them no new social laws, and the state shutdown. This has not proven to be popular and the Republicans have been getting the blame for the shutdown. Now the bonds are going to be sold to cover the debt of the old bonds.

Nothing has really changed. The debt is still there but some state spending has been cut.

Now the onus is on the Republicans to work for more jobs in the state so state revenues can pick up and the bonds can be paid off. Republicans ran on a ticket of job creation but so far all they have done is work to pass their social programs and none of these have passed.

How different would all of this been if the Republicans had worked for job creation from the first day and not to pass their social agenda? I guess we will never know.
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  #2  
Old 07-17-2011, 09:24 PM
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What was their plan for job creation? How would they convince companies to hire people they don't need? Conversely, how do you cut spending without firing people?
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  #3  
Old 07-17-2011, 09:43 PM
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Whenever my credit card debt gets to the limit I just get a new card. I'm glad that the states are just as smart as me.

I have just entered the real estate market and have a bridge for sale in New York.
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  #4  
Old 07-17-2011, 09:53 PM
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Come on, come on! Tell us more about all the "social programs" the Repubs. in Minnezota have created. Well, then, just tell us about ONE program they initiated. Come on, come on, don't hold back, we all want to know. If it is really good, I might move back. You libtards always got these stories! Come on, tell us about it. Then tell us how they should quit wasting time and create these jobs. What kind of widgets should the Great
State of Minnezota be manufacturing. Oh, license plates, oh wow, that's a great idea. Come on, get real!
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  #5  
Old 07-17-2011, 10:29 PM
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There is an inferance rapidly permeating into society that dealing with the debt is basically just trying to find ways to expand it. Or at least trying to figure out how to at least manage the expansion of it.

Truly eliminating it or even really dealing with it seems to have slipped away from concious thought. To deal with debt had a simpler formula in the old days.

Pay it off or do not engage it as a general rule unless well structured. We seem to want debt today to allow just more abuse of common sense.

I have no ideal what the wake up call will be or when it will occur if ever now. In theory you could take a country right into the ground by the methology being used today at the government level.

Changing political parties is not the answer either as neither party has really properly dealt with these issues. Instead just continually seriously compounding them instead. It has been and is continuing to look like an expanding alice in wonderland situation.

There still exists a form of checks and balances in the world that should not be disregarded to the degree they have been.
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  #6  
Old 07-17-2011, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Whenever my credit card debt gets to the limit I just get a new card. I'm glad that the states are just as smart as me.

I have just entered the real estate market and have a bridge for sale in New York.
I have a few 100 ac on the moon, interested in a trade?
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  #7  
Old 07-18-2011, 12:05 AM
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funny how times change. even the exhalted obama voted against raising the debt limit in 2006.http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00054
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  #8  
Old 07-18-2011, 12:19 AM
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Sounds like the budget compromise is in trouble, according to the Minneapolis Strib:
http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/125722713.html
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  #9  
Old 07-18-2011, 01:09 PM
Pooka
 
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So far all of you have missed the point I was trying to make.

The Republicans, on both state and national levels, said if they were elected they would solve the job problem. Jobs, jobs, jobs is what they ran on. They never said how they would do it; they just said they would. They have so far made no efforts in this direction whatsoever.

I have no solutions to the job problem or the debt problem, but then I never claimed to. The Republicans did make this claim, and apparently they had no plans for how to follow through on them. They also said that if they did not deliver they should be voted out of office, but how many Conservatives are ready to do that? My guess would be very, very few.

And the main point I was trying to make was: The question was asked some months ago here about how would the states deal with the debt crisis many were facing. I said they would issue more debt as I did not see anyway out of the situation. Apparently the state of MN does not either.

Republicans have social programs they wish to pass. These programs consist of restricting voting rights, restricting the availability of a legal abortion, restricting the rights of labor Unions and restricting the teaching of science topics they don't agree with. On a national level they are working to restrict Social Security, Medicare and Medicade. Please note that they are not looking for solutions to problems as their solution is to just stop these programs. If problems arise from stopping the programs, well, someone else can figure out how to deal with those problems as they really have no solutions. At least none they are willing to share.

Until some real work gets done by our elected ones nothing will improve, and just refusing to pay debts that the government has run up is not a solution. People who create debt and then refuse to pay it are called 'Deadbeats' and in the world's system of finance Deadbeats face higher interests rates that make it even harder to pay off their bills. This is what the current crop of 'leaders' is, well, leading us into.

I notice that the first thing Conservatives do when their shortcomings are pointed out is to cry, 'Well, you have no solution'. Correct. But then I never claimed to and the Conservatives did.

So their solution is to just ignore our debts? Or is their solution to get what they want by threats to destroy the US economy if they don't get what they want in the way of social reforms, reforms they have been trying to pass for 40 years but so far have not been able to pass through the normal means?

If anyone has any real solutions this would be a good time to bring them up, but the Republicans in MN have found that empty threats will result in a good chance of being tossed out by the voters. Of course, if they had done the job they had promised they would not be facing angry voters.

But they didn't, did they, and now they are. The tragic part about all of this is that any good the Republicans might do in MN is likely to be lost for years to come just because they bet everything on this one grand plan that flopped. The Republicans in DC, if they pull the same stunt, will likely find themselves in the same shape Newt did when he tried it some years ago.

There is a solution, but if I were to bring it up there would be howls of protest, so why bother. But it did work in the past, when Nixon was trying to find a way to pay for the Veit-Nam war, and it could work now. But things were different then because our leaders worked to find solutions to our problems.

I'm not sure what our leaders are doing today, but working together to find solutions to our problems does not seem to be one of them.
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  #10  
Old 07-18-2011, 01:16 PM
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for the past century and a half Republicans and Democrats (excluding the War between the States) working together have brought us to this unfortunate juncture.

Why would one suppose a different outcome might emerge?

Keep voting for the same two parties you guys. Maybe it will be different next time.
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  #11  
Old 07-18-2011, 02:12 PM
Pooka
 
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That is the most intelligent solution I have heard yet.

But is there an alternative Party currently or on the horizon? The Tea Party Republicans seems to be nothing more than Republicans that don't understand how the system works, so I don't see them has having any answers.

I am beginning to like Ron Paul. At least he seems to be focused on the problems at hand although I don't like his notions about disbanding the Fed.

Where did 'The hard stuff we do right now, the impossible takes a little longer' way of doing things in this country go?
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  #12  
Old 07-18-2011, 02:14 PM
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I think a revolution is needed to solve this.. As well as term limits for Senators and Representatives.

I dont understand how the govt cannot operate with a balanced budget. I do it! I spend and save only what I make
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  #13  
Old 07-18-2011, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooka View Post
I am beginning to like Ron Paul. At least he seems to be focused on the problems at hand although I don't like his notions about disbanding the Fed.
Disband? No. Lock Bernanke and friends up for counterfeiting and sabotage? For sure.
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Old 07-18-2011, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
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I think a revolution is needed to solve this.. As well as term limits for Senators and Representatives.

I dont understand how the govt cannot operate with a balanced budget. I do it! I spend and save only what I make
Careful there, son...the Jolly on might come back and claim you're a member of a militia...or worse.
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  #15  
Old 07-18-2011, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
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I think a revolution is needed to solve this.. As well as term limits for Senators and Representatives.
You mnay be right. Neither appears to have a clue as to the true nature and seriousness of the situation, and thus no idea how to try and approach it.

Quote:
I dont understand how the govt cannot operate with a balanced budget. I do it! I spend and save only what I make
Because there is no check on the government. No consequence. When you screw up your finances you face consequences. When the government does so it just raises the debt ceiling and prints more money.

- Peter.
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