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  #166  
Old 08-04-2011, 11:32 AM
sjh sjh is offline
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...for whatever trauma you endured, that caused you to embrace the "magical" , i am empathetic. however, you might want to investigate the source of your trauma, instead of blindly embracing - in an act of desperation - the false promises of some cult....

This statement helps me understand your thinking. It's possible you are involved in some form of counseling, etc.

I'm sure you can find scholarly, even-handed discussions of this within psychiatry/psychology/etc where the relationship between the rational and the non-rational (not irrational) is discussed.

The healthy dynamic between the rational and the non-rational is recognized by some as essential, whether secular or sacred. In many ways tonkovich whatever your particular dynamic is, that is your faith, your religion.

I'd suspect you'd say you have no faith but I have never someone who did dance within themselves between the rational and non-rational.

MS openly discusses his faith, his embracing of this interplay. I suggest that secularist delude themselves into believing they are exempt. The ferver with which they do so reveals how tightly they have crammed this aspect of themselves into their own, psychological 'blind spot'.

So this post was your suggestion that believers seek psychological help. My response is that this is a projection on the part of non-believers who are actually the ones who would benefit from wise and loving counsel.


Last edited by sjh; 08-04-2011 at 11:58 AM.
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  #167  
Old 08-04-2011, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by chilcutt View Post
I dont think adding 'May the grace of our Lord bless you' was nessacary.
Perhaps you'd prefer "May the grace of (insert fictitious character) bless you." or the Vulcan salutation "Live Long and Prosper"?
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  #168  
Old 08-04-2011, 11:58 AM
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I dont think adding 'May the grace of our Lord bless you' was nessacary.
You may be right.

I thought that what I was writing and actually coming to understand more as I wrote touched upon areas where I needed to be more at ease with and asked God to intercede.

With some of these discussions I actually try to be thoughtful and even-handed and I find it challenging to do so.

Since I really am trying to encourage honest and courteous exchange I will remove the comment.

Thanks for your input.

Last edited by sjh; 08-04-2011 at 12:47 PM.
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  #169  
Old 08-04-2011, 12:07 PM
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I thought that what I was writing and actually coming to understand more as I wrote touched upon areas where I needed to be more at ease with and ask God to intercede.
While you are at it, ask for the winning Megabucks lottery numbers for this Sat evening. I'll share it with you. That is the kind of intercession I need and not vague signs that can be interpreted any way you want.
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  #170  
Old 08-04-2011, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
No, he is not a Christian terrorist. There are quotes in his manifesto that he specifically did not want Christians in his group. The following excerpt from Ann Coulter's column explains it well. Or you could ignore it since its from AC.


Q: Do I have to believe in God or Jesus in order to become a Justiciar Knight?

A: As this is a cultural war, our definition of being a Christian does not necessarily constitute that you are required to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus.

He goes on to say that a "Christian fundamentalist theocracy" is "everything we DO NOT want," and a "secular European society" is "what we DO want."

"It is enough," Breivik says, "that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian-atheist." That statement doesn't even make sense in America.

At the one and only meeting of Breivik's "Knights Templar" in London in 2002, there were nine attendees, three of whom he describes as "Christian atheists" and one as a "Christian agnostic." (Another dozen people mistook it for a Renaissance Faire and were turned away.)

Breivik clearly explains that his "Knights Templar" is "not a religious organization but rather a Christian 'culturalist' military order." He even calls on the "European Jewish, Buddhist and Hindu community" to join his fight against "the Islamization of Europe."

He doesn't believe in Christianity or want anyone else to, but apparently supports celebrating Christmas simply to annoy Muslims.
end quote.
Some other things that Ms Coulter "left out."

Breivik chose to be baptized at age 15. He self-identified as "Christian" on his Facebook page. He thought "Christianity should recombine under the banner of a reconstituted and traditionalist Catholic Church" or, later, under a new (traditionalist) European Church.

Breivik is not an American-style evangelical Christian. He is not a "fundamentalist" in that sense. Though he does identify with American cultural Christian conservatives. And he considers himself to be fighting in the name of "our Christian cultural heritage." He supports a reconstituted Knights Templar devoted to winning a war against Islam in the name of Christianity.



Salon Magazine Alex Pareene
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  #171  
Old 08-04-2011, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
What about followers of Molech?
Which Molech?

Moloch, Molech, Molekh, Molok, Molek, Molock, or Moloc (representing Semitic מלך m-l-k, a Semitic root meaning "king") is the name of an ancient Semitic god, in particular a god of the Phoenicians, and the name of a particular kind of child sacrifice associated with that god.

Moloch was historically affiliated with cultures throughout the Middle East, including the Ammonite, Hebrew, Canaanite,[1] Phoenician and related cultures in North Africa and the Levant.

In modern English usage, "Moloch" can refer derivatively to any person or thing which demands or requires costly sacrifices.


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Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
Maybe this is a false trail, but think out loud with me a moment.
I am wondering if the population's feeling about their ability to influence their government has anything to do with this. In democracies, the citizens generally have a feeling of connection with their government, but what happens when the citizens feel their government is beyond control? Will they tend to be as cynical as say, citizens in a dictatorship?
Are we approaching that level of cynicism?
Part of the maturity I'm thinking about is recognizing that one's own list of absolutely essential priorities and policies is not necessarily going to be embraced by the entire nation and/or its representatives in govt.

I would agree that in some nations, the veneer of democracy is not too persuasive and doesn't cover for the fact of plunder and corruption. Some of that happening here, the plunder part that is. I wonder how many in the Senate (Kyl I'd wager for starters) are firmly on the Trent Lott track and have been for years, that is, serving long enough to prepare the way for a golden parachute job of lobbying into their twilight years.

What a deal, they get to feel important and get handsomely paid for it with much less hassle than when they were in office.
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  #172  
Old 08-04-2011, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MTI View Post
Some other things that Ms Coulter "left out."

Breivik chose to be baptized at age 15. He self-identified as "Christian" on his Facebook page. He thought "Christianity should recombine under the banner of a reconstituted and traditionalist Catholic Church" or, later, under a new (traditionalist) European Church.

Breivik is not an American-style evangelical Christian. He is not a "fundamentalist" in that sense. Though he does identify with American cultural Christian conservatives. And he considers himself to be fighting in the name of "our Christian cultural heritage." He supports a reconstituted Knights Templar devoted to winning a war against Islam in the name of Christianity.



Salon Magazine Alex Pareene
So, it seems we are back to the debate of whether Christianity, or any religion, is personal or cultural. I think we can agree that there are elements of each.
I think what I find offensive is when charges like this are made, no one differentiates between the two with the implication that the perp's Christianity was "genuine". Further, I believe that on the part of many the blurring is intentional in an effort to ridicule Christianity, and make some sort of moral equivalency with other terrorists.
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  #173  
Old 08-04-2011, 03:58 PM
sjh sjh is offline
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Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
Which Molech?

Moloch, Molech, Molekh, Molok, Molek, Molock, or Moloc (representing Semitic מלך m-l-k, a Semitic root meaning "king") is the name of an ancient Semitic god, in particular a god of the Phoenicians, and the name of a particular kind of child sacrifice associated with that god.

Moloch was historically affiliated with cultures throughout the Middle East, including the Ammonite, Hebrew, Canaanite,[1] Phoenician and related cultures in North Africa and the Levant.

In modern English usage, "Moloch" can refer derivatively to any person or thing which demands or requires costly sacrifices.


wikipediaPart of the maturity I'm thinking about is recognizing that one's own list of absolutely essential priorities and policies is not necessarily going to be embraced by the entire nation and/or its representatives in govt.

I would agree that in some nations, the veneer of democracy is not too persuasive and doesn't cover for the fact of plunder and corruption. Some of that happening here, the plunder part that is. I wonder how many in the Senate (Kyl I'd wager for starters) are firmly on the Trent Lott track and have been for years, that is, serving long enough to prepare the way for a golden parachute job of lobbying into their twilight years.

What a deal, they get to feel important and get handsomely paid for it with much less hassle than when they were in office.
Nice tone. Solid content. No invectives.

Seems like the kinda place I'd like to spend time and get to know some people.

Good job.

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