Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Discussions > Off-Topic Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-08-2011, 12:13 AM
Anders
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 409
German Army WWII Horse drawn-Interesting

Despite highly ballyhooed emphasis on employment of mechanized forces and on rapid movement, the bulk of German combat divisions were horse drawn throughout World War II. Early in the war it was the common belief of the American public that the German Siegfrieds of Hitler's Blitz rode forth to battle on swift tanks and motor vehicles. But the notion of the mechanized might of the German Wehrmacht was largely a glamorized myth born in the fertile brains of newspapermen. Actually, the lowly horse played a most important part in enabling the German Army to move about Europe.
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/germanhorse/index.html
__________________
Anders

1995 E300
2015 VW TDI Sportwagen 15K
1977 240D (197K)
2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon (115k) (Wife's)
Gone but not forgotten:
2005 Buick LeSabre
1998 C230
1984 300D
1983 240D
1981 300SD
1974 240D
1974 Fiat 124 Spider
1968 Triumph TR250
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-08-2011, 12:19 AM
Fulcrum525's Avatar
Sing Blue Silver
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 2,091
Looks like a great article. I'll have to read it tomorrow when I have time.
__________________
1982 300GD Carmine Red (DB3535) Cabriolet FOR SALE
1990 300SEL Smoke Silver (Parting out)
1991 350SDL Blackberry Metallic (481)

"The thing is Bob, its not that I'm lazy...its that I just don't care."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-08-2011, 01:09 AM
Pooka
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 664
The only drawback to horses was finding food and water for them. Troops were expected to move at walking speed so there was no need to have anything that would move any faster.

Horses were last used in combat by US forces during WW 1. The number one question asked when horses were expected to be used was would there be fodder for them on the other side of the enemy line? Once US forces broke through everyone would dismount in groups of four. Three men would guard the horses and one would see to it they were fed.

There were still horse mounted troops in the US military until the end of the Veit-Nam era, but they were mostly for show. There are only a few left now, and show is all they do.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-08-2011, 06:41 AM
sjh sjh is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 580
Thanks. Very interesting article.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-08-2011, 08:56 AM
R Leo's Avatar
Stella!
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: En te l'eau Rant
Posts: 5,393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooka View Post
Horses were last used in combat by US forces during WW 1.
I'm not sure that's correct. I have knowledge of horses being used in WWII. Read on:

The father (now passed) of one of the members here was in the mounted cavalry and once regaled me with a story about being deployed to the Philippines during WWII. Their mounts were coming from Australia and, when the horse ship was within sight of land, was torpedoed by the Japanese and sank. A month passed before more mounts could be procured and shipped to them.

Unfortunately, these new mounts were green.

Mr. Moody explained to me the comprehensive process in which the cavalry breaks green mounts. It starts with the command: "Mount up!!"...after which begins the world's largest rodeo.
__________________
Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-08-2011, 09:02 AM
R Leo's Avatar
Stella!
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: En te l'eau Rant
Posts: 5,393
From Wikipedia:
The only significant engagement of American horsemen in World War II was the defensive action of the Philippine Scouts (26th Cavalry Regiment).[111] The Scouts challenged the Japanese invaders of Luzon, holding off two armoured and two infantry regiments during the invasion of the Philippines. They repelled a unit of tanks in Binalonan and successfully held ground for the Allied armies' retreat to Bataan.[112] In Europe, the American forces fielded only a few cavalry and supply units during the war. George S. Patton lamented their lack in North Africa and wrote that "had we possessed an American cavalry division with pack artillery in Tunisia and in Sicily, not a German would have escaped."
__________________
Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-08-2011, 09:54 AM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
Zero
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Milford, CT
Posts: 19,306
Yep, I had the percentages once broken down by theatre, I'll have to see if I can look it up.

Major Knappe was in a horse drawn artillery division and they were largely relegated to a reserve unit in Russia until December because they just couldn't keep up with the front. They were horse drawn until 1943 when they were moved to Italy and got Italian vehicles. They were very happy to get vehicles less upkeep and faster movement.

This was one of the reasons why the German high command wanted to wait until 1945 to go to war, so they could replace all the horses with vehicles.

Also contrary to popular belief the German Panzer divisions had pretty bad tanks until about 1942. In Poland and France they used a lot of Panzer 1 & 2's along with some captured Skoda tanks which were all obsolete. The Panzer 4 was really the back bone of the German tank force throughout the war and Guderian fought hard to prevent them from killing it in 1943 in favor of Panther production.

The French actually had a splendid tank division which they largely wasted. If used properly it could have cut the German advance off at its knees; Rommel had a bit of fun with it for awhile.
__________________
2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 LTZ
2007 Tiara 3200

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
-Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-08-2011, 10:24 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,292
I believe some of our people are using horses in Afghanistan.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-08-2011, 10:04 PM
Fulcrum525's Avatar
Sing Blue Silver
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 2,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
Yep, I had the percentages once broken down by theatre, I'll have to see if I can look it up.

Major Knappe was in a horse drawn artillery division and they were largely relegated to a reserve unit in Russia until December because they just couldn't keep up with the front. They were horse drawn until 1943 when they were moved to Italy and got Italian vehicles. They were very happy to get vehicles less upkeep and faster movement.
What was it that German general called them on the eastern front? Those damned yankee trucks?
__________________
1982 300GD Carmine Red (DB3535) Cabriolet FOR SALE
1990 300SEL Smoke Silver (Parting out)
1991 350SDL Blackberry Metallic (481)

"The thing is Bob, its not that I'm lazy...its that I just don't care."
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-08-2011, 10:33 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
Zero
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Milford, CT
Posts: 19,306
Yeah the deuce and a halfs and Jeeps. Anyone who knows anything about tactics knows that supply is what battles are won and lost on. The Russians thanks to us had a lot of very good trucks and were able to move things around better than the Germans could. At the time American built trucks were the best in the world (still are IMHO), they held up to the Russian roads better than others.

http://www.o5m6.de/studebaker_us6_u2.html
These helped turn the tide more than people in this country realize.

Problem with horses is they all died and became food in December and Jan of 1941/42, so they were replaced by men or vehicles, sometimes replacement horses which were either Russian captured or farm horses. Also pre war German calvary officers would raise and train horses and then sell them to the government for a profit. When the war started German officers were riding into battle on their own mounts, which were quickly nationalized along with all other German horses to shield them from the monetary loss of losing one, and so the government could insure a supply.
__________________
2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 LTZ
2007 Tiara 3200

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
-Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-08-2011, 10:40 PM
Jorn's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: TheFlyingDutchManInHollywood
Posts: 5,167
All I know is that when the Nazi's fled Holland in 1945 they took all our bicycles to do so. Not many horses left at that time; most were slaughtered for supper.
__________________
Black on Black 1979 300CD (sold), 1990 Black 300SE, Silver 1989 Volvo 780, 1988 300CE
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-08-2011, 10:51 PM
Fulcrum525's Avatar
Sing Blue Silver
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 2,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorn View Post
All I know is that when the Nazi's fled Holland in 1945 they took all our bicycles to do so. Not many horses left at that time; most were slaughtered for supper.
Interesting. The article did touch on that momentarily mentioning that many German Recon units had switched to bicycles towards the end of the war.
__________________
1982 300GD Carmine Red (DB3535) Cabriolet FOR SALE
1990 300SEL Smoke Silver (Parting out)
1991 350SDL Blackberry Metallic (481)

"The thing is Bob, its not that I'm lazy...its that I just don't care."
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-08-2011, 10:54 PM
cmac2012's Avatar
Renaissance Dude
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 15,419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honus View Post
I believe some of our people are using horses in Afghanistan.
I remember reading about that early on. The terrain recommends it.
__________________
cmac

1986 300SDL, 315K
1987 BMW 325i, 440K
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-09-2011, 08:58 PM
Pooka
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 664
Back in the 50's a WW 1 vet told me the best thing about horses was that you could eat them.

He hated horses. He said the only goods ones came in a car and had a picture of a dog on the outside. I think that is pretty extreme, but he really did not like horses.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-09-2011, 09:27 PM
Botnst's Avatar
What knockers!
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: There castle.
Posts: 35,710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honus View Post
I believe some of our people are using horses in Afghanistan.
Early on the Army special forces, working with anti-Taliban warlords, engaged in a cavalry charge that was reported (at the time) to be the most recent tactical use of Horses in a front line assault by Americans since the Indian Wars. Anyway, it had the virtue of being successful.

(IMO, the US should have only used SF in Afghanistan. When we parachuted regular army into the theater of operations I had a bad feeling of deja vu.)

I didn't know about the cavalry in the Philippines, that was interesting.
__________________
'Government is like a baby:
An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and
no sense of responsibility at the other'
- Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page