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  #16  
Old 08-31-2011, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
...promised taht the unemployment wouldn't rise above 8.5% if he got his spending bills passed and it has...
False. He never made any such promise.

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  #17  
Old 08-31-2011, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
I am amused that the people who are incensed that Perry is a serial prevaricator haven't seemed to notice that particular pattern is the norm, as personified by our current president, not the exception.
Oh my goodness. Aren't those silly people just so amusing?
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  #18  
Old 08-31-2011, 05:04 PM
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Perry's stubbornness coupled with his general ignorance and right wing christian leanings is a very very scary combination. He possesses the 2 most dangerous things a person in his position can have and that is ignorance and arrogance. He is too ignorant to know and too arrogant to ask.
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  #19  
Old 08-31-2011, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Yak View Post
As a Texas resident for Perry's entire tenure, I gotta agree with Kip.

Perry says what he needs to say to get elected. And I hope that's not true in 2012.

I'm not a fan of President Obama, but compared to Perry he'd be the lesser of two evils. It's a shame that's the choice we may end up with, again.
scarier is the thought of what we could end up with if the right wing religous loons mobilize enough thinking this guy will do duty for them.
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  #20  
Old 08-31-2011, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by kip Foss View Post
Perry's stubbornness coupled with his general ignorance and right wing christian leanings is a very very scary combination. He possesses the 2 most dangerous things a person in his position can have and that is ignorance and arrogance. He is too ignorant to know and too arrogant to ask.
"his right wing christian leanings"--anybody that buys that old ANGLE is stupid enough to wait up on santa claus on christmas eve.

you need to view the old frontline epesode about BushII and lee Atwater- its just an angle th get the loons, nothing more.
bush takes a walk one day with Billy Grahm and is suddenly saved and --sure,














Ubetcha.
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  #21  
Old 08-31-2011, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
False. He never made any such promise.
really? Here's a link whose last sentence reads "And so we rule the statement by Cantor — and other Republicans who have said the same thing — Barely True." (with regards to this statement: "We were promised. The president said we would keep unemployment under 8.5 percent (if the stimulus passed).")

Eric Cantor on Wednesday, July 8th, 2009 in a PBS interview.

I do not know about the objectivity of the link, but barely true is more true than "false".
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  #22  
Old 08-31-2011, 07:52 PM
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Political premisses. Texas style.

Whiskey
In 1952, Armon M. Sweat, Jr., a member of the Texas House of Representatives, was asked about his position on whiskey. What follows is his exact answer (taken from the Political Archives of Texas).

"If you mean whiskey, the devil's brew, the poison scourge, the bloody monster that defiles innocence, dethrones reason, destroys the home, creates misery and poverty, yea, literally takes the bread from the mouths of little children; if you mean that evil drink that topples Christian men and women from the pinnacles of righteous and gracious living into the bottomless pit of degradation, shame, despair, helplessness, and hopelessness, then, my friend, I am opposed to it with every fiber of my being.

However, if by whiskey you mean the lubricant of conversation, the philosophic juice, the elixir of life, the liquid that is consumed when good fellows get together, that puts a song in their hearts and the warm glow of contentment in their eyes; if you mean Christmas cheer, the stimulating sip that puts a little spring in the step of an elderly gentleman on a frosty morning; if you mean that drink that enables man to magnify his joy, and to forget life's great tragedies and heartbreaks and sorrow; if you mean that drink the sale of which pours into Texas treasuries untold millions of dollars each year, that provides tender care for our little crippled children, our blind, our deaf, our dumb, our pitifully aged and infirm, to build the finest highways, hospitals, universities, and community colleges in this nation, then my friend, I am absolutely, unequivocally in favor of it.

This is my position and, as always, I refuse to compromise on matters of principle"
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  #23  
Old 08-31-2011, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
False. He never made any such promise.
I stand corrected -- 8%.

To make the case for a big stimulus package, they released their economic forecast for the next few years. Without the stimulus, they saw the unemployment rate -- then 7.2 percent -- rising above 8 percent in 2009 and peaking at 9 percent next year. With the stimulus, the advisers said, unemployment would probably peak at 8 percent late this year. NYT
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  #24  
Old 08-31-2011, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
Oh my goodness. Aren't those silly people just so amusing?
Pretty much, yeah.
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  #25  
Old 08-31-2011, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kip Foss View Post
Political premisses. Texas style.

Whiskey
In 1952, Armon M. Sweat, Jr., a member of the Texas House of Representatives, was asked about his position on whiskey. What follows is his exact answer (taken from the Political Archives of Texas).

"If you mean whiskey, the devil's brew, the poison scourge, the bloody monster that defiles innocence, dethrones reason, destroys the home, creates misery and poverty, yea, literally takes the bread from the mouths of little children; if you mean that evil drink that topples Christian men and women from the pinnacles of righteous and gracious living into the bottomless pit of degradation, shame, despair, helplessness, and hopelessness, then, my friend, I am opposed to it with every fiber of my being.

However, if by whiskey you mean the lubricant of conversation, the philosophic juice, the elixir of life, the liquid that is consumed when good fellows get together, that puts a song in their hearts and the warm glow of contentment in their eyes; if you mean Christmas cheer, the stimulating sip that puts a little spring in the step of an elderly gentleman on a frosty morning; if you mean that drink that enables man to magnify his joy, and to forget life's great tragedies and heartbreaks and sorrow; if you mean that drink the sale of which pours into Texas treasuries untold millions of dollars each year, that provides tender care for our little crippled children, our blind, our deaf, our dumb, our pitifully aged and infirm, to build the finest highways, hospitals, universities, and community colleges in this nation, then my friend, I am absolutely, unequivocally in favor of it.

This is my position and, as always, I refuse to compromise on matters of principle"
Not Texas. It was Mississippi.
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  #26  
Old 08-31-2011, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
I am amused that the people who are incensed that Perry is a serial prevaricator haven't seemed to notice that particular pattern is the norm, as personified by our current president, not the exception.
i am amused that you wish to justify rick perry's prevarication by claiming that, well, "everyone does it".

and yet, you claim to be a moralist, and a christian who believes in the platonic ideals?

fail.
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  #27  
Old 08-31-2011, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
I stand corrected -- 8%.
I wasn't referring to the percentage figure you cited. The more significant error in your previous post was your claim that Obama promised that unemployment would not rise above a certain amount. Obama never made any such promise.
Quote:
To make the case for a big stimulus package, they released their economic forecast for the next few years. Without the stimulus, they saw the unemployment rate -- then 7.2 percent -- rising above 8 percent in 2009 and peaking at 9 percent next year. With the stimulus, the advisers said, unemployment would probably peak at 8 percent late this year. NYT
Right. So, you concede that your previous claim was false. He never made a promise on that point. The administration made a projection which they later conceded was incorrect because the economy was even weaker than they thought when the did their analysis.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jul/13/george-will/will-obama-said-stimulus-would-cap-unemployment-8-/

In fact, economists now say that the economy was even worse than that: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aNivTjr852TI

Your post was not only false with respect to Obama's supposed promise, it missed the point from an economic standpoint. The relevant question is not the precise percentage of unemployment, but rather the direction the economy moved as a result of Obama's policies. IMHO, he moved the economy in the right direction. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/did-the-stimulus-work-a-review-of-the-nine-best-studies-on-the-subject/2011/08/16/gIQAThbibJ_blog.html

AFAIK, the part about Obama's supposed promise on unemployment was the only factually false part of your previous post. Some other parts of your post were merely silly, such as the suggestion that Obama is to blame for not working across the aisle and not changing the tone in Washington. All things considered, Obama is doing quite well, given the obstruction he has faced from the GOP.
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  #28  
Old 08-31-2011, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MTUpower View Post
really? Here's a link whose last sentence reads "And so we rule the statement by Cantor — and other Republicans who have said the same thing — Barely True." (with regards to this statement: "We were promised. The president said we would keep unemployment under 8.5 percent (if the stimulus passed).")

Eric Cantor on Wednesday, July 8th, 2009 in a PBS interview.

I do not know about the objectivity of the link, but barely true is more true than "false".
They have changed their rating from "Barely True" to "Mostly False":
Quote:
Editor's note: This statement was rated Barely True when it was published. On July 27, 2011, we changed the name for the rating to Mostly False. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/09/eric-cantor/Cantor-and-other-republicans-say-obama-promised-s/
I don't know what they mean by "mostly." If you read what the administration said, it simply was not a promise. Here's the report: http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/The_Job_Impact_of_the_American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Plan.pdf

It says, among other things:
Quote:
...First, the likely scale of employment loss is extremely large. The U.S. economy has already lost nearly 2.6 million jobs since the business cycle peak in December 2007. In the absence of stimulus, the economy could lose another 3 to 4 million more. Thus, we are working to counter a potential total job loss of at least 5 million. As Figure 1 shows, even with the large prototypical package, the unemployment rate in 2010Q4 is predicted to be approximately 7.0%, which is well below the approximately 8.8% that would result in the absence of a plan....
No promises there. Maybe there is a promise somewhere else, but I have not seen it.
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  #29  
Old 09-01-2011, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
I wasn't referring to the percentage figure you cited. The more significant error in your previous post was your claim that Obama promised that unemployment would not rise above a certain amount. Obama never made any such promise.Right. So, you concede that your previous claim was false. He never made a promise on that point. The administration made a projection which they later conceded was incorrect because the economy was even weaker than they thought when the did their analysis.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jul/13/george-will/will-obama-said-stimulus-would-cap-unemployment-8-/

In fact, economists now say that the economy was even worse than that: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aNivTjr852TI

Your post was not only false with respect to Obama's supposed promise, it missed the point from an economic standpoint. The relevant question is not the precise percentage of unemployment, but rather the direction the economy moved as a result of Obama's policies. IMHO, he moved the economy in the right direction. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/did-the-stimulus-work-a-review-of-the-nine-best-studies-on-the-subject/2011/08/16/gIQAThbibJ_blog.html

AFAIK, the part about Obama's supposed promise on unemployment was the only factually false part of your previous post. Some other parts of your post were merely silly, such as the suggestion that Obama is to blame for not working across the aisle and not changing the tone in Washington. All things considered, Obama is doing quite well, given the obstruction he has faced from the GOP.
Oooohhhhh, his administration does not represent him. Got it.

I hope he has more obstruction, not less. His promiscuous spending combined with Bush's is driving this nation into a debt death spiral. More gridlock, please.
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  #30  
Old 09-01-2011, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Oooohhhhh, his administration does not represent him. Got it...
Apparently you don't got it. Of course his administration represents him. I'm not sure why you thought I said anything to the contrary. The issue we were discussing was whether President Obama honors his commitments. It was in connection with Yak's comment that, "Perry says what he needs to say to get elected." You replied to Yak with a string of GOP talking points about commitments Obama supposedly made and then failed to fulfill. Included in your reply was the accusation that Obama promised to keep unemployment below a certain level if he got his spending bills passed. Obama never made any such promise and, AFAIK, he followed through on what he said he would do on that issue. Unfortunately, his projections were wrong, but it has nothing to do with saying "what he needs to say to get elected."

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