Nevada gunman with AK47 shoots up mall, but vic with handgun does not return fire - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

boneheaddoctor · #31 09-09-2011, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

Many people buy into the 'dial 911 and wait' theory. Of course, anyone with a handgun needs to train continously so that when and if they need to use it, they are totally confident in their abilities. Open carry is fine by me, I've noticed when a man is present who has a gun on his hip, people tend to act very civil to one another.

I can consistently shoot a 3 inch group at 100 yards with open sights with a standard rifle with run of the mill ammunition..( I used to shoot Competitive match years ago, was good not great)..but I'd be lucky to put half my rounds into a dinner plate at 20 yards with a handgun. Handgun is much harder to be proficient at.

HuskyMan · #32 09-09-2011, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I know a guy who was an excellent shot. For years he kept freezing up when he saw a live deer. On paper he was as good a shot as anyone. He would see a buck and start screaming "BUCK!" but not be able to shoot it.

perhaps he had a problem with shooting a living thing. some people do; I've known people who were hunters for years and as life progressed made the decision to stop hunting. It's a personal thing for some.

Back to the IHOP thing, if someone had happened to have had a gun and trained in it's use, they would have been required to act and act very very FAST. In a violent confrontation, hesitation will get you killed. drop the fork, draw your weapon and get him before he gets you. shoot first, ask the questions later.

aklim · #33 09-09-2011, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

perhaps he had a problem with shooting a living thing. some people do; I've known people who were hunters for years and as life progressed made the decision to stop hunting. It's a personal thing for some.

Back to the IHOP thing, if someone had happened to have had a gun and trained in it's use, they would have been required to act and act very very FAST. In a violent confrontation, hesitation will get you killed. drop the fork, draw your weapon and get him before he gets you. shoot first, ask the questions later.

That is kinda the problem. In the dating world, "He who hesitates, masturbates". In this case, well, the consequences are a little more dire. A lot of people might be trained and all that but if they lack the mentality to kill someone, they will hesitate and probably never be able to masturbate again. It's not only the training. It's the mentality.

boneheaddoctor · #34 09-09-2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

That is kinda the problem. In the dating world, "He who hesitates, masturbates". In this case, well, the consequences are a little more dire. A lot of people might be trained and all that but if they lack the mentality to kill someone, they will hesitate and probably never be able to masturbate again. It's not only the training. It's the mentality.

Exactly.....thinking about killing someone....and actually being ready to do it that instant are way, WAY different things. And its a mindset and feeling that's NOT like you imagine it to be (its really not pleasant)....not to a normal non-psychopath anyway.

hill · #35 09-09-2011, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

perhaps he had a problem with shooting a living thing. some people do; I've known people who were hunters for years and as life progressed made the decision to stop hunting. It's a personal thing for some.

Back to the IHOP thing, if someone had happened to have had a gun and trained in it's use, they would have been required to act and act very very FAST. In a violent confrontation, hesitation will get you killed. drop the fork, draw your weapon and get him before he gets you. shoot first, ask the questions later.

Amen Brother Amen Figured that one out myself, with a rather russian looking boar.

aklim · #36 09-09-2011, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hill

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Amen Brother Amen Figured that one out myself, with a rather russian looking boar.

Never had to shoot a person but drawn the gun a couple of times. Can't be sure if I would actually squeeze the trigger since I have never done it yet. Never had an issue with shooting an animal. I was so excited after shooting my first deer I could hardly talk. Black Russian Boar wasn't an issue but I screwed up the mount by shooting it in the neck.

boneheaddoctor · #37 09-09-2011, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Never had to shoot a person but drawn the gun a couple of times. Can't be sure if I would actually squeeze the trigger since I have never done it yet. Never had an issue with shooting an animal. I was so excited after shooting my first deer I could hardly talk. Black Russian Boar wasn't an issue but I screwed up the mount by shooting it in the neck.

I've never drawn a gun on someone......but I would have beaten someone to death in my youth had physical intervention and restraint not stopped me. It was that close to it and it was going to happen if it wasn't stopped, at that point I decided that guy wasn't going to be walking away. Guy spent 30 days in the hospital from his injuries (yeah he was bigger than me). It was self defense on my part according to the State Police. Like I said....I know the mindset, and in hindsight it still sends a chill up my spine over 30 years later.

Don't care to experience that ever again. But if it is my life (or my families) or theirs....I'd do it. Certainly wouldn't feel good about it....but I know I could.

aklim · #38 09-09-2011, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

I've never drawn a gun on someone......but I would have beaten someone to death in my youth had physical intervention and restraint not stopped me. It was that close to it and it was going to happen if it wasn't stopped, at that point I decided that guy wasn't going to be walking away. Guy spent 30 days in the hospital from his injuries (yeah he was bigger than me). It was self defense on my part according to the State Police. Like I said....I know the mindset, and in hindsight it still sends a chill up my spine over 30 years later.

Don't care to experience that ever again.

Frankly, I remember drawing a gun on 3 guys. I honestly don't remember what I was thinking. Only weapons confrontation I remember was counting how many rounds had been fired at me by my GF and listening for the "click" when she had her 5. I remember hearing the 5th round go "click" and realizing she had a dud for her 5th and final round and remember trying to stay low and head towards the woods but that is all I remember. I wish there was someone who could probe my mind and tell me what was going on those times but that was it.

boneheaddoctor · #39 09-09-2011, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Frankly, I remember drawing a gun on 3 guys. I honestly don't remember what I was thinking. Only weapons confrontation I remember was counting how many rounds had been fired at me by my GF and listening for the "click" when she had her 5. I remember hearing the 5th round go "click" and realizing she had a dud for her 5th and final round and remember trying to stay low and head towards the woods but that is all I remember. I wish there was someone who could probe my mind and tell me what was going on those times but that was it.

In my case I experienced clarity and focus unlike anything I've ever experienced, to the degree of being hyper-focused, and having one single thought and intent in your mind ...to the degree that over 30 years later I remember everything like it happened yesterday....that's part of why I found it so unsettling and still do.

Was never shot at either.....though I have witnessed a guy being shot in the chest nearly point blank (one or two feet away) with a Colt 45.....I was 20 feet away and watched it happen. Yet felt no fear I would be targeted next oddly enough because it was a skuffle between 3 guys. Not a raving lunatic like the case in Nevada. Or Arizona not long ago.

t walgamuth · #40 09-09-2011, 10:20 PM

It's one thing to buy a gun and have it in your store so you can act in self defense.....another to intervene in something which does not directly threaten you.

The whole outgunned issue is also valid.

When I was a kid we lived in the country outside South Bend. There was a little corner grocery store near our house. Guys from South Bend used to come out and rob it.

After this happened a few times the owner got himself a handgun. Knowing my dad was a gun guy he showed it to dad and said next time he was going to shoot the robbers. Dad looked at his 32 caliber gun and told him to go back and get at least a 38.

Dad always felt with a 32 or smaller you could shoot a big guy and even if he was mortally wounded he might be able to get you. A 38 or larger will put about anybody down right now.

The fellow went back and got a 38.

Not too long after that he was robbed again. He gave them his money and then followed them outside and killed one of the robbers.

The robberies stopped.

Chaulk one up for the good guys.

aklim · #41 09-09-2011, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Not too long after that he was robbed again. He gave them his money and then followed them outside and killed one of the robbers.

The robberies stopped.

Chaulk one up for the good guys.

That is an outrage. Robbers are people too

HuskyMan · #42 09-09-2011, 11:22 PM

I think it is known as "fight or flight" syndrome. when threatened, the decision to either fight or flight is made within milliseconds. It is as if our animal past suddenly rears itself and we become.......animals. Sorta like the same thing you hear about when a car falls off the jack stands and a family member suddenly exhibits super-human strength and picks the car up and frees them.

When threatened you may go into super-human mode and do things you would normally never be able to do, especially if a family member is being threatened.

aklim · #43 09-09-2011, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

I think it is known as "fight or flight" syndrome. when threatened, the decision to either fight or flight is made within milliseconds. It is as if our animal past suddenly rears itself and we become.......animals. Sorta like the same thing you hear about when a car falls off the jack stands and a family member suddenly exhibits super-human strength and picks the car up and frees them.

When threatened you may go into super-human mode and do things you would normally never be able to do, especially if a family member is being threatened.

Animal past? We need to get back to the animal level before we can even aspire to reach any lofty human goals. The animals are way ahead of us in achieving the ideals.

Well, but as the story goes, the guy wasn't directly threatened and didn't want to risk himself for the other people. IOW, better you get shot than me. As long as I am safe, screw you and the horse you rode in on. I do think it would be interesting to see if that guy would preserve his own skin should it come to it or sacrifice himself for his family.

HuskyMan · #44 09-10-2011, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Animal past? We need to get back to the animal level before we can even aspire to reach any lofty human goals. The animals are way ahead of us in achieving the ideals.

Well, but as the story goes, the guy wasn't directly threatened and didn't want to risk himself for the other people. IOW, better you get shot than me. As long as I am safe, screw you and the horse you rode in on. I do think it would be interesting to see if that guy would preserve his own skin should it come to it or sacrifice himself for his family.

that is probably it; he wasn't being directly threatened along with being out-gunned so that most likely figured into his decision to not take the risk. Also, a whacko wielding an AK would be both shocking and intimidating to most people. I think someone would need to have the element of surprise (like coming up on AK man from the rear) in order to successfully take him out.

Or, perhaps a crossbow fired from someone hidden from behind a parked car could be deadly as well. Unfortunately, we'll never know because the damage is done. Going out in public is risky business.......

Skippy · #45 09-10-2011, 12:59 AM

Some good news: Local's BBQ, which was hit 17 times has reopened. The owner is the guy who was present and armed but was unable to return fire. I will be having dinner there tomorrow.