Don't fly on 9/11 if you look Arab - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

spdrun · #31 09-13-2011, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

BS. My father does business all over the world without US citizenship. I can fly back to singapore tomorrow if the mood struck me and I have to do business so don't tell me that. I also happen to personally know one of his friends doing business in MI that renounced his citizenship so unless he is doing something illegal and using a fake passport which I know he isn't since I saw him when we went thru customs and immigration, he is able to do business.

Sounds like you don't have the guts to make the big move so you keep whining.

Unless there are specific tax issues involved, what advantage does renounciation vs dual citizenship give? Goal is to increase my choices, not trade being stuck in one region for another.

aklim · #32 09-13-2011, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

Legally, I'm a dual citizen by birth and I have submitted paperwork demanding a second passport on that basis. It's not something that can be legally denied, hence "confirmation", not "naturalization." Process takes about 6 months if done via a consul in the US, probably shorter if done directly abroad, but I've already started this path so I'll finish it this way.

Fine. Call us in 6 months and we'll see if you have the stones to walk the walk then. I assure you little will change in 6 months that will please you.

Oh yes, I did check it out. By renouncing your citizenship you cannot buy a gun legally from a gun dealer. Any other drawbacks?

spdrun · #33 09-13-2011, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Oh yes, I did check it out. By renouncing your citizenship you cannot buy a gun legally from a gun dealer. Any other drawbacks?

You're a non-citizen, same as anyone who wasn't born here, so you need a green card to do business in the US, and may need a visa to even enter the US. Again, why limit your choices if the goal is to increase them?

A passport is a convenience and a tool, not something to take nationalistic pride in, in my book.

aklim · #34 09-13-2011, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

Unless there are specific tax issues involved, what advantage does renounciation vs dual citizenship give? Goal is to increase my choices, not trade being stuck in one region for another.

Dunno exactly but this guy had political and financial reasons to give up his citizenship. As a citizen of that country, he had some incentives to do his business. His wife's family wanted it and hence the political part since he didn't want to have bad feelings with his wife. I never bothered because I knew I wouldn't go back to live. As I told my Dad, I'd rather flip burgers here than make 6 figures and more there. I also told him that I would only be back twice more since I would have to bury them both and show my respects and do my duty as the elder son.

But that's me. I don't like the place or organization, I walk. I don't want to be associated with it at all. I mean, if I felt that bad about singapore, why would I still want to be there or associated with them. Besides, one big con of a US passport is that it might make you a better target if you ever get captured by some muslim "tour guides" who insist on you being their guest.

spdrun · #35 09-13-2011, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Besides, one big con of a US passport is that it might make you a better target if you ever get captured by some muslim "tour guides" who insist on you being their guest.

If you're traveling to a place where that's a risk, then leave the US passport at home and travel on your second passport?

As far as love vs hate, I don't consider citizenship an act of love. It's just a marriage of convenience, and right now, the US is less convenient than many other countries. This may change -- it's called hedging one's bets.

aklim · #36 09-13-2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

You're a non-citizen, same as anyone who wasn't born here, so you need a green card to do business in the US,

and may need a visa to even enter the US. Again, why limit your choices if the goal is to increase them?

A passport is a convenience and a tool, not something to take nationalistic pride in, in my book.

Absolute BS. My Dad has been doing business here and still is. He doesn't even have a "green card". US VISA

Depending on the country, you may not. Besides, the process is not complicated at all.

Not an issue of nationalistic pride at all. Just something that goes along with the citizenship. It doesn't make anything harder at all realistically speaking. It didn't take but a 2 hours of time and 2 long island iced teas to fill up the visa application to get to Nam and Indonesia the last time I was there. Half of it was spent on getting the booze from the liquor shop to the house and mixing it up.

spdrun · #37 09-13-2011, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Absolute BS. My Dad has been doing business here and still is. He doesn't even have a "green card". US VISA

Depending on the country, you may not. Besides, the process is not complicated at all.

Again: what's the specific ADVANTAGE of renouncing unless you're doing it for tax reasons?

aklim · #38 09-13-2011, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

If you're traveling to a place where that's a risk, then leave the US passport at home and travel on your second passport?

That is about all I can think of as a drawback. A US passport doesn't get you anything more than any other passport realistically speaking.

Like I said, if this place is so bad, why would you even want to be a part of it? I wouldn't. But I run on principles more than most so I suppose. On a similar vein, if my wife was bad enough that I think I can be happier with another woman, I'd leave her. I wouldn't try to juggle 2 women and see which one works out better but I run more on principles so maybe there is the difference

spdrun · #39 09-13-2011, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Like I said, if this place is so bad, why would you even want to be a part of it? I wouldn't. But I run on principles more than most so I suppose. On a similar vein, if my wife was bad enough that I think I can be happier with another woman, I'd leave her. I wouldn't try to juggle 2 women and see which one works out better but I run more on principles so maybe there is the difference

I have no such principles in that regard. Governments are all bad and evil to varying degrees. It's not a matter of allegiance, it's a matter of finding a place where the brand of government evil is less obnoxious than in another place. And since this changes with time, it's best to keep one's options open.

I only have love for people (and few of those at that), not for some painted rag.

chilcutt · #40 09-13-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

Do you like living in a ****ery that is involved in endless war and strife, and reaps the benefits of that strife in the form of paranoia and the occasional terrorist attack? Why the sarcasm -- if we were out of the Middle East, threw Israel to the wolves, and didn't have to deal with this ****e on a daily basis, it would be a good thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udz5_FdoFGU -- it's not the American culture, it's American meddling. Per the CIA official tasked with tracking Bin Laden in the 90s.

What's up with the rah, Rah, RAH! Dumberica is best attitude on this forum? As far as Singapore, I'd rather live quite a few Eastern European countries before Singapore. No terrorist attacks in a long time, nice people, pleasant cities with a good arts scene, relatively lax law enforcement, etc.

MTU..would you care to respond to the youtube video, narrated by an expert on terrorism, as opposed to marginaliseing me?
It would seem that you are dancing all around this issue.

aklim · #41 09-13-2011, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

I have no such principles in that regard.

Governments are all bad and evil to varying degrees. It's not a matter of allegiance, it's a matter of finding a place where the brand of government evil is less obnoxious than in another place. And since this changes with time, it's best to keep one's options open.

I only have love for people (and few of those at that), not for some painted rag.

I tend to go with my principles even when they are somewhat inconvenient and not just because it is convenient at this time. Before I even set foot in this country, I fully understood that the requirements were going to be a royal PITA. Back then, much to everyone's surprise, I agreed with it although it would have made life simpler if it wasn't so. As a citizen, I still agree with it and will until the day I become senile. But as I said, I try to live on my principles even when they are inconvenient.

So if we were to become friends, can I assume you are a "Fair Weathered Friend" and I should expect your support when the going is good and you'd sell me out for a buck?

I'm sorry to burst your bubble. Govt is made up of people. People are basically bad or you'd love more than a few as you attest.

spdrun · #42 09-13-2011, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

So if we were to become friends, can I assume you are a "Fair Weathered Friend" and I should expect your support when the going is good and you'd sell me out for a buck?

I'm sorry to burst your bubble. Govt is made up of people. People are basically bad or you'd love more than a few as you attest.

I have no strength to love more than a few at present for various reasons.

As far as entities, be they govnomints or larger corpirations, once the number of people making decisions exceeds a certain amount and complexity increases, the entities become less than the sum of their parts.

boneheaddoctor · #43 09-13-2011, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

If they didn't work for 2.5 hours of flight time and the time waiting on the tarmac for the police, they were unlikely to work. Why storm the plane and say that anyone who looks up will be "taken care of" like some freakin' Mafia members?

Yeah, I know there are people with bad intentions. It's also somewhat our fault that those people hate us -- consider the continual American-led meddling in the Middle East since the 50s (before that, it was the British). If we want to be safe, we should butt the hell out of places where we're not wanted and improve our OWN country.

One more reason why I'm thinking that a nice, out of the way, non-Euro East European country would be the way to go in the future.

As opposed to the Muslim meddling occuring in areas OUTSIDE of the Middle east? Or is THAT Ok with you? Cripes....grow a pair or move back to the Utopia that apparently exists in the middle east.

Most terrorists ARE Muslim, thats reality...therefore Muslims ARE the group most likely to be causeing trouble. Not all Muslims of course...but enough that they will draw suspicion. Particularly since such a high percentage support terrorist actions. We aren't talking tens, hundreds or even thousands...., but well into the millions.

I haven't seen many Eskimo terrorists, or for that matter Hasidic, Wiccan, Bhudist, Quaker, or a long, long list of others.

Its like a drunk wandering in a parking lot keys in hand being stopped by a cop before they actually got into a car. You don't have to wait before they actually kill someone on the highway to do something.

aklim · #44 09-13-2011, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

I have no strength to love more than a few at present for various reasons.

As far as entities, be they govnomints or larger corpirations, once the number of people making decisions exceeds a certain amount and complexity increases, the entities become less than the sum of their parts.

Strength is not the issue. Finding candidates is. At least for me it is.

GIGO. Garbage In, Garbage Out. Until you can remove the human in the equation (Garbage In), you get what you get (Garbage Out). As the saying goes, "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear". The entities do NOT become less than the sum of the parts. In fact they become more than the sum of parts. Your basic disagreement is that you assume that to become more, they have to do more good for YOU. They become more in that they can do more for THEMSELVES. They are doing better on top than on the bottom layer and that is true of all govts. They improved THEIR lot and if YOURS improves too, so be it. NOBODY is out there for you and the sooner you realize that simple fact, the happier you will be. EVERYONE is out there for themselves. They do you good because it profits them. Profit is not limited to cash. They can be paid in different coin. That is, unless you believe in Altruism.

aklim · #45 09-13-2011, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

As opposed to the Muslim meddling occuring in areas OUTSIDE of the Middle east? Or is THAT Ok with you?

He only has to look north to his faith brothers in Malaysia which is the reason Singapore built the desalination plants and means to recycle waste water if he wants to see meddling.