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  #31  
Old 09-14-2011, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elchivito View Post
Much ado......
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Originally Posted by MTI View Post
must have been a slow news minute.
Must have for the liberal press, yes.

If a statue of MLK was covered up when say the tea party was having a conference it would be on all the news channels for a week and riots may be undertaken is my guess. What is your two guesses if that were the case? If you think there would be no news about that then fine, but if you think there would be any outrage or lots of news then we can clearly note a double standard. Again- what is your humble guesses as to if the situation where played out with a MLK statue covered up?

This does go to the basis of race relations, equality, and double standards. I certainly hope we all are trying to eradicate double standards and make equal opportunities for everyone and not base things on race.

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  #32  
Old 09-14-2011, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MTUpower View Post
Must have for the liberal press, yes.

If a statue of MLK was covered up when say the tea party was having a conference it would be on all the news channels for a week and riots may be undertaken is my guess. What is your two guesses if that were the case? If you think there would be no news about that then fine, but if you think there would be any outrage or lots of news then we can clearly note a double standard. Again- what is your humble guesses as to if the situation where played out with a MLK statue covered up?
You didn't ask me, but I will weigh in anyway.

I think that video of a Tea Party rally with a covered up MLK statue would get lots and lots of attention. The video would be replayed over and over.

Now, as to the GW statue, I still say, so what?

Double standard? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure it's an apples-to-apples comparison. Either way, I still say, so what?
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  #33  
Old 09-14-2011, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
You didn't ask me, but I will weigh in anyway.

I think that video of a Tea Party rally with a covered up MLK statue would get lots and lots of attention. The video would be replayed over and over.

Now, as to the GW statue, I still say, so what?

Double standard? Probably so.

So what?
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. How can you be for equal opportunity and yet endorse looking the other way when viewing of double standards? You can't. Instead you want to give one side a pass. This is racism pure and simple.
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  #34  
Old 09-14-2011, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MTUpower View Post
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. How can you be for equal opportunity and yet endorse looking the other way when viewing of double standards?
Sorry, I was editing my post just as you responded.

I'm not sure that I have a good argument to make beyond how it feels to me. If a local chapter of the NAACP covered up GW because they thought he would offend people attending their rally (and that is a significant "if"), then I think that is unfortunate and I wish they didn't do it. On the other hand, if people see GW as a symbol of the evil system of slavery and the oppression of black people after slavery ended, then I'm glad to live in a country where they can say so.

If our hypothetical Tea Partiers covered up an MLK statue, it would make me wonder what that statue symbolizes for them. I would wonder why they want to cover him up. For whatever reason, I think I would be less proud to live in a country with those people.
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  #35  
Old 09-14-2011, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MTUpower View Post
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. How can you be for equal opportunity and yet endorse looking the other way when viewing of double standards? You can't. Instead you want to give one side a pass. This is racism pure and simple.
We are talking over one another here. I think you added those last three sentences while I was responding.

The GW thing, if it is as portrayed in your OP, might be racism, but not necessarily. If some people see GW as a symbol of slavery, then I think they are misguided, but their animosity toward him would have a non-racial component.

Last edited by Honus; 09-14-2011 at 02:18 PM.
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  #36  
Old 09-14-2011, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MTUpower View Post
Must have for the liberal press, yes.

If a statue of MLK was covered up when say the tea party was having a conference it would be on all the news channels for a week and riots may be undertaken is my guess. What is your two guesses if that were the case? If you think there would be no news about that then fine, but if you think there would be any outrage or lots of news then we can clearly note a double standard. Again- what is your humble guesses as to if the situation where played out with a MLK statue covered up?

This does go to the basis of race relations, equality, and double standards. I certainly hope we all are trying to eradicate double standards and make equal opportunities for everyone and not base things on race.
It'd be all over the news. And it'd be much ado about nothing.
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  #37  
Old 09-14-2011, 02:22 PM
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gEORGe W
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  #38  
Old 09-14-2011, 10:11 PM
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What I find strange about this and race relations is that if 40 years ago the USA- white and black and yellow and green- all said we can no longer base any "public" decision based on race everyone but the white racists would have been overjoyed. Now if we say that the blacks and PC whites do everything to refute that and say it's wrong; we have to base public decisions based on how we can give blacks more stuff- be that more business from the government, be that more college entrances slots, be that most anything as long as it "helps" blacks. In addition, blacks have tried and basically gotten that no other group is a "minority" in many cases because that means less of the stuff for blacks. Now far too much things that blacks do is swept under the rug with the "so what?" by the PC crowd which by any other definition is making decisions based solely on race. Wouldn't and didn't MLK argue against this very thing?
It is my contention that we will never have a society free of racism until we as a whole are free of making decisions about anything or anyone that is based on race. We must be race blind. What's good for the goose MUST be good for the gander, and until everyone is race blind no one will be free of racism or racist policies.
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  #39  
Old 09-14-2011, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by MTUpower View Post
What I find strange about this and race relations is that if 40 years ago the USA- white and black and yellow and green- all said we can no longer base any "public" decision based on race everyone but the white racists would have been overjoyed. Now if we say that the blacks and PC whites do everything to refute that and say it's wrong; we have to base public decisions based on how we can give blacks more stuff- be that more business from the government, be that more college entrances slots, be that most anything as long as it "helps" blacks. In addition, blacks have tried and basically gotten that no other group is a "minority" in many cases because that means less of the stuff for blacks. Now far too much things that blacks do is swept under the rug with the "so what?" by the PC crowd which by any other definition is making decisions based solely on race. Wouldn't and didn't MLK argue against this very thing?
It is my contention that we will never have a society free of racism until we as a whole are free of making decisions about anything or anyone that is based on race. We must be race blind. What's good for the goose MUST be good for the gander, and until everyone is race blind no one will be free of racism or racist policies.
Seems like you are conflating public action with private. AFAIK, the government had nothing to do with the NAACP's decision to cover up GW, other than to allow them to do it. Under the First Amendment, I don't see any way the government could have stopped them.

The people at that rally were all private citizens doing what citizens do in America. They have (according to you) beliefs that offend you, but so what? What do you want us to do about it?

Are you suggesting that demonstrators would not be permitted to express anti-black views? What about the Nazis in Skokie?

Last edited by Honus; 09-14-2011 at 10:53 PM.
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  #40  
Old 09-14-2011, 10:36 PM
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Seems like you are conflating public action with private. AFAIK, the government had nothing to do with the NAACP's decision to cover up GW, other than to allow them to do it. Under the First Amendment, I don't see any way the government could have done that.

The people at that rally were all private citizens doing what citizens do in America. They have (according to you) beliefs that offend you and they expressed those beliefs, but so what? What do you want us to do about it?
Seeing that you are responding to my post- what do you think you should do or think about it?
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  #41  
Old 09-14-2011, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MTUpower View Post
Seeing that you are responding to my post- what do you think you should do or think about it?
You are assuming that those demonstrators disrespected GW. To reach that conclusion, you have to assume the organizers are lying about the purpose of that enclosure, which is certainly a possibility.

What do I think should be done about it? I feel no motivation to do anything about it. I am just having a hard time getting upset about it. I like GW as much as the next guy, but I am not so insecure as to freak out whenever someone disrespects him. If called upon to do something about it, I would first talk to the organizers to see whether their story holds together. If so, then I might give them some unsolicited, amateur PR advice that they might help their cause to be a bit more respectful of our first president. If I think they are lying, then perhaps someone should point it out.

I think that's about it.
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  #42  
Old 09-15-2011, 12:13 AM
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Free speech -- it's a good thing. Including these guys. The alternative is not just stupid, it's suicidal for the polity.

But their still ignorant.
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  #43  
Old 09-15-2011, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTUpower View Post
Must have for the liberal press, yes.

If a statue of MLK was covered up when say the tea party was having a conference it would be on all the news channels for a week and riots may be undertaken is my guess. What is your two guesses if that were the case? If you think there would be no news about that then fine, but if you think there would be any outrage or lots of news then we can clearly note a double standard. Again- what is your humble guesses as to if the situation where played out with a MLK statue covered up?

This does go to the basis of race relations, equality, and double standards. I certainly hope we all are trying to eradicate double standards and make equal opportunities for everyone and not base things on race.
The tea party would not hold an event on a stage where a life sized statue of MLK loomed over the speaker. It would raise too many questions, such as, why are they doing it, what is their connection to MLK, etc.

Those questions would be less obvious with a GW statue but I wouldn't want a statue of GW behind me or any other speakers at an event I was organizing. Too distracting for the eye.
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  #44  
Old 09-15-2011, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Free speech -- it's a good thing. Including these guys. The alternative is not just stupid, it's suicidal for the polity.

But their still ignorant.
Didn't you mean to say 'there still ignernt?'
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  #45  
Old 09-15-2011, 06:18 AM
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Heh!

There's no Their there.

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