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  #31  
Old 09-15-2011, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MagnumPI View Post
Hardly. If the point is to make sure no one is turned away, the second 1 person is turned away, it's a wash.
I don't think that is the point. The point is to provide the best healthcare in the most equitable and affordable manner.
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The alternative doesn't try to advocate such fantasy. If that's how universal is defined, then a free, open market/society/economy allows everyone the same means and opportunities to acquire the wealth or charity to receive whatever medical services they require or desire. Thus, more universal.
With arguments like that, do you really want to go calling other people's arguments "absurd"? Just because the word, "universal," is not literally, 100% accurate, do you really think that is an argument to go to a free market system? If the plans that some people call "universal" provide improved access to health care and reduce costs in the process, do you really think that those plans should be abandoned based on the label used to describe them?

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  #32  
Old 09-15-2011, 01:57 PM
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Then stop using the word universal??? That's not what it is. When you can figure out what it is you're actually advocating, then you can start talking to me about how wonderful it is.
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  #33  
Old 09-15-2011, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MagnumPI View Post
Then stop using the word universal??? That's not what it is. When you can figure out what it is you're actually advocating, then you can start talking to me about how wonderful it is.
Where did you get the impression that I was advocating for a particular system?

Since you have advocated for a free market system, I think you should figure out what you mean by that. You said that such a system is "more universal." That's an oxymoron. A system is either universal or its not. A free market system is clearly not universal in any sense. And it certainly isn't "more universal" than the socialized systems used in other countries.

That's not a terribly satisfying argument I just made, is it? Likewise, your parsing of the word "universal" does nothing to advance your argument, IMHO.
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  #34  
Old 09-15-2011, 02:16 PM
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So you don't advocate anything, just "universal"? That was my point, you just like to say words that feel good. /
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  #35  
Old 09-15-2011, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MagnumPI View Post
So you don't advocate anything, just "universal"? That was my point, you just like to say words that feel good. /
I'm not the one who introduced the word into this thread. Someone else used the word and I commented on it. I'm sorry that I failed to correct the gentleman for his poor choice of words.
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  #36  
Old 09-15-2011, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MagnumPI View Post
Really? UNIVERSAL as in not a single person gets turned down? Odd, I've not seen one.
Step into the real world. "Universal health care' is a phrase used to refer to forms of health care publicly funded and which don't base access to health care on economic class. Obviously, not everyone is treated in such a system. If you get in a car crash and die on the way to the hospital the health care system didn't work for you. If 100 people need kidneys and there are only 10 available then not everyone is going to get a kidney transplant under either a capitalist/individualist system or a universal system.
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  #37  
Old 09-15-2011, 03:27 PM
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Step into the real world. "Universal health care' is a phrase used to refer to forms of health care publicly funded and which don't base access to health care on economic class. Obviously, not everyone is treated in such a system. If you get in a car crash and die on the way to the hospital the health care system didn't work for you. If 100 people need kidneys and there are only 10 available then not everyone is going to get a kidney transplant under either a capitalist/individualist system or a universal system.
So centrally planned, and bureaucratically controlled, medical care. More of these people "we" can't "trust" now with monopoly on decision making in regards to who gets medical treatment, based on available stolen funds... Let's do it.
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  #38  
Old 09-15-2011, 03:35 PM
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So centrally planned, and bureaucratically controlled, medical care. More of these people "we" can't "trust" now with monopoly on decision making in regards to who gets medical treatment, based on available stolen funds... Let's do it.
Yes, the kind of medical care available in Canada or the UK or France. As opposed to the capitalist bureaucratic insurance company controlled system we have currently.
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  #39  
Old 09-15-2011, 03:40 PM
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So long as you admit they can't be trusted.
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  #40  
Old 09-15-2011, 03:40 PM
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So centrally planned, and bureaucratically controlled, medical care. More of these people "we" can't "trust" now with monopoly on decision making in regards to who gets medical treatment, based on available stolen funds... Let's do it.
IMHO, you focus on theory at the expense of practicality. You think the government will screw up any sort of universal, or almost universal, health care plan we try. That might be true, but could they screw it up worse than the free market has screwed up the system we have now?
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  #41  
Old 09-15-2011, 03:40 PM
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Yes, the kind of medical care available in Canada or the UK or France. As opposed to the capitalist bureaucratic insurance company controlled system we have currently.
With the same clowns that control the budget so well by shifting money left and right till we have no clue of what we are paying for? Really?

In medical terms, do you simply think that you can transplant a kidney from one person into another?
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  #42  
Old 09-15-2011, 03:43 PM
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There is no free market. Whatever power insurance or medical companies have was derived from their relationship with the government, which is necessarily funded by theft.

Not to mention ONCE AGAIN, if people have screwed up what is currently taking place, what's to say the same people are magically going to stop screwing it up when they have monopoly power? Because government is god, and fixes everything.
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  #43  
Old 09-15-2011, 03:47 PM
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In medical terms, do you simply think that you can transplant a kidney from one person into another?
What????
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  #44  
Old 09-15-2011, 03:49 PM
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There is no free market. Whatever power insurance or medical companies have was derived from their relationship with the government, which is necessarily funded by theft.

Not to mention ONCE AGAIN, if people have screwed up what is currently taking place, what's to say the same people are magically going to stop screwing it up when they have monopoly power? Because government is god, and fixes everything.
The figures I posted in the other thread indicate quite strongly that the contrary is true. From an economic perspective, countries with universal health care have been doing a far better job of containing medical costs.
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  #45  
Old 09-15-2011, 03:49 PM
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what's to say the same people are magically going to stop screwing it up when they have monopoly power? Because government is god, and fixes everything.
Don't believe in letting a druggie guard the pharmacy or what?

I would say the answer to that is "Hope and well wishes". Maybe it will work out. Then again, we can go hunting for flying pigs.

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