Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Discussions > Off-Topic Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-15-2011, 01:33 PM
Dee8go's Avatar
Senor User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 7,190
Why IS health care so expensive?

Okay, for those of you who actually KNOW something factual about this, why IS health care so expensive? It seems to me that when I was a kid in the 50s and the 60s that a hospital stay was priced more like what staying in an expensive hotel might cost. Longer hospital stays were also more common back then. Today, a week in the hospital with no health insurance would bankrupt most people.

So, what happened to drive that cost up so disproportionately?

__________________
" The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But, unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do."- Warren Buffett

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-15-2011, 01:47 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,292
I don't think there any questions more important than that one. Wish I knew the answer.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-15-2011, 01:47 PM
G-Benz's Avatar
Razorback Soccer Dad
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Dallas/Fort-Worth
Posts: 5,711
Well, you can start with the technology and equipment that didn't exist back in the 50's and 60's.

Hospitals and private medical facilities gotta pay for all that million-dollar diagnostic gear they use to treat you.

Not to mention the array of gear surrounding a patient bed that looks more like a television production booth than a health care facility!

Also remember that even though the costs are abyssmal, a lot of treatments take far less inpatient stay than they did back then (thanks in part to insurance mandates). And some treatments that used to require a bed have moved to outpatient services!
__________________
2009 ML350 (106K) - Family vehicle
2001 CLK430 Cabriolet (80K) - Wife's car
2005 BMW 645CI (138K) - My daily driver
2016 Mustang (32K) - Daughter's car
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-15-2011, 01:52 PM
tbomachines's Avatar
ಠ_ಠ
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Benz View Post
Well, you can start with the technology and equipment that didn't exist back in the 50's and 60's.

Hospitals and private medical facilities gotta pay for all that million-dollar diagnostic gear they use to treat you.

Not to mention the array of gear surrounding a patient bed that looks more like a television production booth than a health care facility!

Also remember that even though the costs are abyssmal, a lot of treatments take far less inpatient stay than they did back then (thanks in part to insurance mandates). And some treatments that used to require a bed have moved to outpatient services!
This is essentially the answer - though i should add a lot of doctors charge a lot for unnecessary work as well, and don't forget the factor of inflation...my s class cost 30k when it was new and now they're well into 6 figures. In addition to the dme, pharmaceuticals cost a ton of money here whether you agree with it or not. the whole system is in need of a wake up call...it's gained a lot of publicity but unfortunately I think a lot of practices will continue in their old ways in order to pad the wallets a bit more.
__________________
TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-15-2011, 01:55 PM
TX76513's Avatar
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Brandon, Mississippi
Posts: 5,203
You think its expensive now - wait until its free.
__________________
BENZ THERE DONE THAThttp://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...c/progress.gif
15 VW Passat TDI
00 E420
98 E300 DT
97 E420 Donor Car - NEED PARTS? PM ME!
97 S500
97 E300D
86 Holden Jackaroo Turbo D
86 300SDL
(o\|/o)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-15-2011, 01:55 PM
Dee8go's Avatar
Senor User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 7,190
I agree. The equipment is expensive, but it also makes the facilities and providers more productive. So, I reason that while you once had an highly educated and highly paid individual, the doctor, spending more time directly with a given patient to diagnose and treat illnesses less efficiently and probably less effectively, now that same doctor can concentrate on the tougher cases, while less highly trained and paid care givers (nurses, PAs, and medical technicians) can take care of the more common, more easily-diagnosed, and treated illnesses in less time.
In every other industry/profession technology, division of labor, and specialization seem to raise productivity and lower costs at the same time. Medicine seems to be the one glaring area where the reverse is the case.
__________________
" The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But, unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do."- Warren Buffett

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-15-2011, 01:56 PM
Dee8go's Avatar
Senor User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 7,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by TX76513 View Post
You think its expensive now - wait until its free.
Ha ha ha! Sadly, you are probably correct, sir!
__________________
" The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But, unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do."- Warren Buffett

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-15-2011, 02:21 PM
LandYaghtLover's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Green Bay, WI
Posts: 1,341
Its simple. Greed by hospitals. But also carelessness by insurance. Long ago when a hospital would treat someone they may or may not have insurance. So prices were reasonable. But then insurance became more and more popular and hospitals kept pushing the envelope of what they could charge and get aways with. Insurance disputed less and less, hospitals charged more and more.

Basically there was not checks and balance systems in place. It snowballed into what it is today. But the real kicker is that hospitals are ran more like any other business and LESS like a health care facility. Which is why those without insurance often get turned away.

As for machines costing a lot. Sure they do, but they also make the diagnosing of patients easier and quicker, thus in many cases saving time and staff.
__________________
1991 560 SEL / 185k miles
1992 750il / 17k miles - project car
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-15-2011, 02:47 PM
tbomachines's Avatar
ಠ_ಠ
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by LandYaghtLover View Post
Its simple. Greed by hospitals. But also carelessness by insurance. Long ago when a hospital would treat someone they may or may not have insurance. So prices were reasonable. But then insurance became more and more popular and hospitals kept pushing the envelope of what they could charge and get aways with. Insurance disputed less and less, hospitals charged more and more.

Basically there was not checks and balance systems in place. It snowballed into what it is today. But the real kicker is that hospitals are ran more like any other business and LESS like a health care facility. Which is why those without insurance often get turned away.

As for machines costing a lot. Sure they do, but they also make the diagnosing of patients easier and quicker, thus in many cases saving time and staff.
The check is when the charges from the hospital become too much for the HI to stay in the black, which either leads to denied claims or increased rates or both...mostly higher rates in the past, but I think HIs are trying to balance that out a lot more with high deductible plans, different coverage packages, etc (all the more confusing for the consumer).

To the equipment point - the equipment usually needs operators and maintenance ($$$) and are often replaced after a few years for something bigger and better. I can't imagine the used MRI machine market is too great right now, I'd think that "old" equipment is almost a total loss.
__________________
TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-15-2011, 02:57 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 18,355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee8go View Post
Ha ha ha! Sadly, you are probably correct, sir!
Not at all. I believe many, if not all, countries with universal health care have lower health care costs per capita than the USA.

Tons of data here:

http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/OECD042111.cfm
__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Last edited by kerry; 09-15-2011 at 03:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-15-2011, 03:04 PM
G-Benz's Avatar
Razorback Soccer Dad
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Dallas/Fort-Worth
Posts: 5,711
My brother is a doc. I don't know what malpractice premiums were in the 50's and 60's but I know his yearly premiums cost more than my first house! That might have some bearing on costs as well.

I also know that he carries a pretty heavy case load to offset the fact that the insurance companies only pay a fraction of what he charges for his services.

While it may be true that PA's, nurses, and other assistants do a lot of the grunt work, freeing the PCP to focus on more critical issues...but I noted my bro's hours...leaving at 4AM and coming home at 11PM, then another 2 hours doing records...not sure if this the case for other physicians.

In addition, my bro is a specialist and a department head...but he doesn't have a mansion and two Ferraris in the driveway!
__________________
2009 ML350 (106K) - Family vehicle
2001 CLK430 Cabriolet (80K) - Wife's car
2005 BMW 645CI (138K) - My daily driver
2016 Mustang (32K) - Daughter's car
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-15-2011, 03:20 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 18,355
Average doctor's salaries in different countries:

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/how-much-do-doctors-in-other-countries-make/
__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-15-2011, 03:23 PM
tbomachines's Avatar
ಠ_ಠ
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
GLARING omission is the cost of education and insurance to achieve that profession. I am out of time this afternoon but I'll see if I can dig something up. I don't know which way it will go but I suspect we are substantially higher here than most of those other countries.
__________________
TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-15-2011, 03:41 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,061
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Benz View Post
My brother is a doc. I don't know what malpractice premiums were in the 50's and 60's but I know his yearly premiums cost more than my first house! That might have some bearing on costs as well.

I also know that he carries a pretty heavy case load to offset the fact that the insurance companies only pay a fraction of what he charges for his services.

While it may be true that PA's, nurses, and other assistants do a lot of the grunt work, freeing the PCP to focus on more critical issues...but I noted my bro's hours...leaving at 4AM and coming home at 11PM, then another 2 hours doing records...not sure if this the case for other physicians.

In addition, my bro is a specialist and a department head...but he doesn't have a mansion and two Ferraris in the driveway!
yes, and why is malpractice insurance so expensive? Because lawyers can and do sue doctors for the slightest issue. There are some areas of the country that suffer from a severe lack of OB GYNs due to the high cost of medical malpractice insurance. They simply cannot afford to stay in business.

The lawyers are winning, the rest of us are losing.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-15-2011, 04:03 PM
Dee8go's Avatar
Senor User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 7,190
I was surprised to find that doctors do not make as much as I thought they did. When you include all of the costs they have with running an office, paying staff, insurance, etc. many of them make less than I would be willing to work for had I spent as much time and money going to school for my profession.

I believe that in the Washington, DC area dentists actually make more on average than doctors do. Most dentists I talk to seem to be more astute businessmen than doctors are.

__________________
" The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But, unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do."- Warren Buffett

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page