Why IS health care so expensive? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Dee8go · #1 09-15-2011, 01:33 PM

Okay, for those of you who actually KNOW something factual about this, why IS health care so expensive? It seems to me that when I was a kid in the 50s and the 60s that a hospital stay was priced more like what staying in an expensive hotel might cost. Longer hospital stays were also more common back then. Today, a week in the hospital with no health insurance would bankrupt most people.

So, what happened to drive that cost up so disproportionately?

Honus · #2 09-15-2011, 01:47 PM

I don't think there any questions more important than that one. Wish I knew the answer.

G-Benz · #3 09-15-2011, 01:47 PM

Well, you can start with the technology and equipment that didn't exist back in the 50's and 60's.

Hospitals and private medical facilities gotta pay for all that million-dollar diagnostic gear they use to treat you.

Not to mention the array of gear surrounding a patient bed that looks more like a television production booth than a health care facility!

Also remember that even though the costs are abyssmal, a lot of treatments take far less inpatient stay than they did back then (thanks in part to insurance mandates). And some treatments that used to require a bed have moved to outpatient services!

tbomachines · #4 09-15-2011, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Benz

Well, you can start with the technology and equipment that didn't exist back in the 50's and 60's.

Hospitals and private medical facilities gotta pay for all that million-dollar diagnostic gear they use to treat you.

Not to mention the array of gear surrounding a patient bed that looks more like a television production booth than a health care facility!

Also remember that even though the costs are abyssmal, a lot of treatments take far less inpatient stay than they did back then (thanks in part to insurance mandates). And some treatments that used to require a bed have moved to outpatient services!

This is essentially the answer - though i should add a lot of doctors charge a lot for unnecessary work as well, and don't forget the factor of inflation...my s class cost 30k when it was new and now they're well into 6 figures. In addition to the dme, pharmaceuticals cost a ton of money here whether you agree with it or not. the whole system is in need of a wake up call...it's gained a lot of publicity but unfortunately I think a lot of practices will continue in their old ways in order to pad the wallets a bit more.

TX76513 · #5 09-15-2011, 01:55 PM

You think its expensive now - wait until its free.

Dee8go · #6 09-15-2011, 01:55 PM

I agree. The equipment is expensive, but it also makes the facilities and providers more productive. So, I reason that while you once had an highly educated and highly paid individual, the doctor, spending more time directly with a given patient to diagnose and treat illnesses less efficiently and probably less effectively, now that same doctor can concentrate on the tougher cases, while less highly trained and paid care givers (nurses, PAs, and medical technicians) can take care of the more common, more easily-diagnosed, and treated illnesses in less time.
In every other industry/profession technology, division of labor, and specialization seem to raise productivity and lower costs at the same time. Medicine seems to be the one glaring area where the reverse is the case.

Dee8go · #7 09-15-2011, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TX76513

You think its expensive now - wait until its free.

Ha ha ha! Sadly, you are probably correct, sir!

LandYaghtLover · #8 09-15-2011, 02:21 PM

Its simple. Greed by hospitals. But also carelessness by insurance. Long ago when a hospital would treat someone they may or may not have insurance. So prices were reasonable. But then insurance became more and more popular and hospitals kept pushing the envelope of what they could charge and get aways with. Insurance disputed less and less, hospitals charged more and more.

Basically there was not checks and balance systems in place. It snowballed into what it is today. But the real kicker is that hospitals are ran more like any other business and LESS like a health care facility. Which is why those without insurance often get turned away.

As for machines costing a lot. Sure they do, but they also make the diagnosing of patients easier and quicker, thus in many cases saving time and staff.

tbomachines · #9 09-15-2011, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LandYaghtLover

Its simple. Greed by hospitals. But also carelessness by insurance. Long ago when a hospital would treat someone they may or may not have insurance. So prices were reasonable. But then insurance became more and more popular and hospitals kept pushing the envelope of what they could charge and get aways with. Insurance disputed less and less, hospitals charged more and more.

Basically there was not checks and balance systems in place. It snowballed into what it is today. But the real kicker is that hospitals are ran more like any other business and LESS like a health care facility. Which is why those without insurance often get turned away.

As for machines costing a lot. Sure they do, but they also make the diagnosing of patients easier and quicker, thus in many cases saving time and staff.

The check is when the charges from the hospital become too much for the HI to stay in the black, which either leads to denied claims or increased rates or both...mostly higher rates in the past, but I think HIs are trying to balance that out a lot more with high deductible plans, different coverage packages, etc (all the more confusing for the consumer).

To the equipment point - the equipment usually needs operators and maintenance ($$$) and are often replaced after a few years for something bigger and better. I can't imagine the used MRI machine market is too great right now, I'd think that "old" equipment is almost a total loss.

kerry · #10 09-15-2011, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dee8go

Ha ha ha! Sadly, you are probably correct, sir!

Not at all. I believe many, if not all, countries with universal health care have lower health care costs per capita than the USA.

Tons of data here:

http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/OECD042111.cfm

G-Benz · #11 09-15-2011, 03:04 PM

My brother is a doc. I don't know what malpractice premiums were in the 50's and 60's but I know his yearly premiums cost more than my first house! That might have some bearing on costs as well.

I also know that he carries a pretty heavy case load to offset the fact that the insurance companies only pay a fraction of what he charges for his services.

While it may be true that PA's, nurses, and other assistants do a lot of the grunt work, freeing the PCP to focus on more critical issues...but I noted my bro's hours...leaving at 4AM and coming home at 11PM, then another 2 hours doing records...not sure if this the case for other physicians.

In addition, my bro is a specialist and a department head...but he doesn't have a mansion and two Ferraris in the driveway!

kerry · #12 09-15-2011, 03:20 PM

Average doctor's salaries in different countries:

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/how-much-do-doctors-in-other-countries-make/

tbomachines · #13 09-15-2011, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Average doctor's salaries in different countries:

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/how-much-do-doctors-in-other-countries-make/

GLARING omission is the cost of education and insurance to achieve that profession. I am out of time this afternoon but I'll see if I can dig something up. I don't know which way it will go but I suspect we are substantially higher here than most of those other countries.

HuskyMan · #14 09-15-2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Benz

My brother is a doc. I don't know what malpractice premiums were in the 50's and 60's but I know his yearly premiums cost more than my first house! That might have some bearing on costs as well.

I also know that he carries a pretty heavy case load to offset the fact that the insurance companies only pay a fraction of what he charges for his services.

While it may be true that PA's, nurses, and other assistants do a lot of the grunt work, freeing the PCP to focus on more critical issues...but I noted my bro's hours...leaving at 4AM and coming home at 11PM, then another 2 hours doing records...not sure if this the case for other physicians.

In addition, my bro is a specialist and a department head...but he doesn't have a mansion and two Ferraris in the driveway!

yes, and why is malpractice insurance so expensive? Because lawyers can and do sue doctors for the slightest issue. There are some areas of the country that suffer from a severe lack of OB GYNs due to the high cost of medical malpractice insurance. They simply cannot afford to stay in business.

The lawyers are winning, the rest of us are losing.

Dee8go · #15 09-15-2011, 04:03 PM

I was surprised to find that doctors do not make as much as I thought they did. When you include all of the costs they have with running an office, paying staff, insurance, etc. many of them make less than I would be willing to work for had I spent as much time and money going to school for my profession.

I believe that in the Washington, DC area dentists actually make more on average than doctors do. Most dentists I talk to seem to be more astute businessmen than doctors are.