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  #1  
Old 09-17-2011, 09:31 AM
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P-51 Mustang crash at air race in Reno 09-2011

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/17/earlyshow/saturday/main20107684.shtml


Quote:
(CBS/AP) Last Updated 8:01 a.m. ET

RENO, Nev. At least three people are dead and more than 50 injured when a pilot lost control of a vintage World War II-era plane and crashed at an air show in Reno.


Twelve people are in critical condition, and the death toll is expected to rise, says CBS News correspondent Karen Brown.


Witnesses describe the scene as absolute carnage, reports Brown.


Thousands of fans come every year to the Reno Air Race to get the thrill of the event - like NASCAR on steroids, with planes going more than 500 miles per hour. But yesterday, thousands watched in horror when a P-51 Mustang pitched upward, rolled and plunged nose-first into the edge of the crowd of spectators.


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  #2  
Old 09-17-2011, 09:32 AM
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I wonder if it is not time to ground the originals and race replicas?
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  #3  
Old 09-17-2011, 09:41 AM
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Regulate air shows! They are dangerous!
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Old 09-17-2011, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuan View Post
Regulate air shows! They are dangerous!
You could just ban air crashes. Its the stop at the end that is the problem !!

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  #5  
Old 09-17-2011, 10:51 AM
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I remember going to the races out side of Phoenix when I lived out there. Never understood why people would stand so close to the race path. The planes are doing in excess of 500mph in the unlimited classes barely 100 feet off the deck. If a plane were too loose control on the front side as happened here, it's all over. I always stood farther back and toward the end of the straight. I think having the spectator area farther away from the race circuit would be a safer idea.

As for grounding the older planes. I do not think it has anything to do with the age of the planes. These things are maintained as well as any new aircraft and it does not look like a structural failure (no pieces looked like they were missing). I just think they went out side the performance envelope. The pilots are pushing these planes and them selves to the very limit and sometimes stuff breaks or things just for wrong.
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  #6  
Old 09-17-2011, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
I remember going to the races out side of Phoenix when I lived out there. Never understood why people would stand so close to the race path. The planes are doing in excess of 500mph in the unlimited classes barely 100 feet off the deck. If a plane were too loose control on the front side as happened here, it's all over. I always stood farther back and toward the end of the straight. I think having the spectator area farther away from the race circuit would be a safer idea.

As for grounding the older planes. I do not think it has anything to do with the age of the planes. These things are maintained as well as any new aircraft and it does not look like a structural failure (no pieces looked like they were missing). I just think they went out side the performance envelope. The pilots are pushing these planes and them selves to the very limit and sometimes stuff breaks or things just for wrong.

This is correct. Aircraft receive an Airworthiness Certificate after post production testing. They go through annual inspections which involve disassembly and thorough inspection and whatever maintenance necessary. The aircraft MUST pass inspection and be have airworthiness directives up to date to maintain their legal as well practical airworthiness. All this must be done to maintain the validity of the Airworthiness Certificate. There are many aspects of the ongoing airworthiness of a plane and the necessary logs that are too lengthy to explain here. They are better maintained than any car you ever saw.

Any pilot with common sense ENSURES that inspections and maintenance are kept up with. The thought of something going wrong with the aircraft in flight is sobering to any pilot. It takes me 15 minutes to do a preflight inspection before I go up for any amount of time. It's MY butt in that plane, and I've kind of gotten attached to living.

In the case of the Mustang, a typical uninformed news reporter said that the trim tab broke. The trim tab has minimal effect on aircraft control and can be overridden. It might be that the elevator control broke. I fully expect the NTSB and FAA to get to the bottom of it.

Outlawing a plane because it is old would be as big brother as outlawing air races because someone might get hurt. This is the USA.
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Old 09-17-2011, 11:41 AM
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It sounds like they need to sit further away from the planes.
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Old 09-17-2011, 12:59 PM
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Adrenaline junkies. All of are susceptible to it. Reminds me of the injuries at that dirt track race in the dark. People standing right next to the track.

I dig the old planes, but I won't be going to any air shows. The pilot was what, 80? I hope to be active at that age but maybe it's wise to know one's limits.
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Old 09-17-2011, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
It sounds like they need to sit further away from the planes.

There you go with common sense again Tom! Sounds like the thing to do alright.
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  #10  
Old 09-17-2011, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
Adrenaline junkies. All of are susceptible to it. Reminds me of the injuries at that dirt track race in the dark. People standing right next to the track.

I dig the old planes, but I won't be going to any air shows. The pilot was what, 80? I hope to be active at that age but maybe it's wise to know one's limits.

I think that you should give the NTSB a call. Since you have it all figured out, it sure would save us a lot of taxpayer money in doing a COMPLETE investigation.

You sir, have no idea what you're talking about. On several fronts, he is safer in that plane than many people are when driving down the road.

First of all, in order to fly he goes through a medical exam that many young people couldn't pass. Second of all, since it's obvious that you've never taken the controls of an airplane, experience, known as flight time is EVERYTHING in flying. Give me a healthy, high time 76 year old at the controls over a young, low time pilot ANY time!!!!!!!!!

There was, and I think she's even still alive, a high time flight instructor in Tennessee that was flying and teaching at the age of 100. In flying, flight time is EVERYTHING!
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  #11  
Old 09-17-2011, 01:51 PM
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They should just ban old people.
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  #12  
Old 09-17-2011, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryBible View Post
There you go with common sense again Tom! Sounds like the thing to do alright.
I am (and the Mrs. would totally agree) the MASTER of the obvious!
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  #13  
Old 09-17-2011, 03:40 PM
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I'd rather see replicas. Not because the old planes are somehow unsafe, but because they have historical significance and they ain't buildin' no more of them.

But even clean-sheet designs can crash and burn:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaled_Composites_Pond_Racer#Problems_and_tragedy

Not one of Burt Rutan's finest days. As far as spectators being so close to the race course, no one forced them to attend the races. Perhaps have a rule requiring people under 18 to stand further back.
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  #14  
Old 09-17-2011, 03:46 PM
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There are pictures that do show evidence of a mechanical problem, it will likely be a while before anyone knows for sure what happened though.
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  #15  
Old 09-17-2011, 03:50 PM
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There are pictures that do show evidence of a mechanical problem, it will likely be a while before anyone knows for sure what happened though.
You're talking about piston planes flying at > 500 mph, the speed of a modern jetliner, and pulling hard G's while they're at it. The engines and airframes must be stressed as hell, no surprise if there was a failure. It's a dangerous sport, the racers know it, and the spectators should accept it as well.

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